Brian's Report from the 2008 TGM Summit
- Thread starter Brian Manzella
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cmartingolf
New
Variations on a theme
TGM likes to see the shaft up the left arm at impact to follow through (both arms straight). The motion is generally powered by your pivot. You can add thrust with the right arm (not hand) or you can pivot.
This action is great for learning how NOT to flip and have good ball ground contact.
IMO, the Tour player don't need to worry about forward shaft lean and impact as they have that piece down. They need more variation and with their short shots. The TGM method makes the ball come off hot. Some educated "flip" can help good players take off some pace.
TGM likes to see the shaft up the left arm at impact to follow through (both arms straight). The motion is generally powered by your pivot. You can add thrust with the right arm (not hand) or you can pivot.
This action is great for learning how NOT to flip and have good ball ground contact.
IMO, the Tour player don't need to worry about forward shaft lean and impact as they have that piece down. They need more variation and with their short shots. The TGM method makes the ball come off hot. Some educated "flip" can help good players take off some pace.
birdie_man
New
Particularly if one hits with the wrist bone of the trail hand, minimizing dx, there is indeed very little difference between hitting and swinging. The restrictive checkrein action, due to the triangular structure of shoulders and arms in a swing, makes hitting and swinging to be rather similar actions.
I agree with your conclusion firstly. (you are dead set on hammering this one aren't you)
(your work is appreciated by many no doubt)
...
But could you explain (brief is fine) what "dx" represents?
I understood most everything else but am unsure on this one.
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birdie_man
New
Brian said:
Have you never gotten this kind of gold star from Ben before?
(Doctorate Level Gold Star?)
(Doctor Of Shotmaking, M.D.)
Does he test you often? Interesting dynamic after all the years you've known each other. (I understand he is your "mentor" though I still find it neat)
mandrin
New
birdie_man,
It really refers to the separation between the main average pressure points by both hands on the shaft. It no doubt is only an approximation but useful for discussion. The dx is hence referring to a possible lever for applying torque on the shaft either by pushing with the trail side or levering the two hands re to dx.
If you have the hands close together and moreover hit with the trail wrist bone, reducing dx to a minimum, you are really closest to a swinging action with the trail side, whilst this is probably normally considered to be hitting.
If you apply pressure on the shaft more towards the trail index finger pressure point, than you increase dx to a maximum, without separating the hands, and are applying more force across the shaft, doing more of hitting action.
It should be understood that swinging and hitting are defined here with regard to a model and don’t necessarily fit with more usual definitions.
In the short game video Over and Out, Brian said in 1987 when he went to Ben and Ben changed everything in BM's swing, the exception was his sand play. Brian was directed to a sand area and after 4 shots, Ben says "That's it. You're doing it correctly."
Steve Khatib
Super Moderator
birdie_man
New
(Forgot to respond to your post below mandrin.)
OK I get it...........I could see that is what it was.........I was just not sure how (and/or how much) it applied to human golfers playing actual golf.
But your description of pushing with the heelpad vs. pushing with forefinger adds clarity.
Very interesting.
Like a lot of these things, it seems counter-intuitive.
I can't help but think: "Even if you lean the shaft a lot forward 'through the ball'?"
OK I get it...........I could see that is what it was.........I was just not sure how (and/or how much) it applied to human golfers playing actual golf.
But your description of pushing with the heelpad vs. pushing with forefinger adds clarity.
mandrin said:
Very interesting.
Like a lot of these things, it seems counter-intuitive.
I can't help but think: "Even if you lean the shaft a lot forward 'through the ball'?"
Brian,
Swinging and hitting action feels perhaps very different. However are they really so different as put forward in TGM?
Any extension action along the action line AE is equivalent mainly to a torque around C and partly to a torque around D. A model has no feelings and hence 'sees' swinging and hitting to be largely the same. Particularly if one hits with the wrist bone of the trail hand, minimizing dx, there is indeed very little difference between hitting and swinging. The restrictive checkrein action, due to the triangular structure of shoulders and arms in a swing, makes hitting and swinging to be rather similar actions.
I agree that this mutual exclusive TGM idea of only either hitting or swinging is simply folklore and better be left alone to collect dust.
How about the forces on the shaft? Is there any practical way to have any type of effective downswing by putting force soley across the shaft and not along it, or vice versa? Thanks.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
I believe pure swinging (along the shaft) would top out at 75% full power and pure FATS would be virtually powerless.
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