Brians teaching philosophy?

[Tball88]

ok, I've been on this site for a long time and have learned a tremendous amount. I have bought several of Brian's videos attended an in person camp, and had a private lesson with him.

I have seen Brian migrate from a TGM based philosophy, to his current modernized science based approach. So my question, is if Brian had a new student, with no preconceived notions about the golf swing, what are the basics he would teach. Not looking for fixes, but building from scratch. Given all this science, what parts really translate to assisting golfers get better. I've seen a lot of arguing lately over what I consider to be minutia, and I'm not really sure how knowing some of the information would make a person a better golfer.

I'm assuming some of the things he would focus on would be a neutral grip, mid body hands, pivot driven power, use of ground forces(which has really helped me recently), uncock and roll procedure with the hands, weight shift on back swing and through swing,etc.

Now I'm not trying to say method, just wondering what a list of basics would be? From what I can tell, we've moved away from trying to create excessive lag and maintaining a bent right wrist, away from trying to hit the ball on the inside quadrant.

I've seen a lot of new information on what may be "wrong" with current instruction, so what's the new "right"

 

[dbl]

I'm not sure why you included uncock and roll, as that sure seems preconceived. Also I doubt that is much in favor by BMan.

 

[Tball88]

uncock and roll is probably the wrong language, but I did think he used the left arm to assist in squaring up the face.

 

[Tball88]

Actually, I'd love to see a good thread on Brian's current thoughts regarding optimal usage of the hands and wrist action throughout the swing.

I know he use to like a flat left wrist at the top of the backswing, not sure if that's still the case.

 

[Ringer]

I think it would be this...

"Fix what they're doing wrong."

 

[Brian Manzella]

I will have something of substance on this soon.

 

[Robbohank]

I think it would be this...

"Fix what they're doing wrong."

Wrong with respect to what?

I think Tball raises a good point and I just saw that Brian is going to post some info on that topic. I too am interested in what Bman thinks is "right" but realistically don't expect it to be totally defined in a single post.

 

[Ringer]

"Right" is whatever gets the player hitting it better. Heh. It ain't all rocket science.

 

[Tball88]

Ringer, I agree, you want to fix what's wrong, which is why in my question, I stated "building from scratch".

Given all the science Brian has invested in, what does he feel are the new "fundamentals" that he would teach. Obviously, there is no one answer for everyone, but I believe there are probably fundamentals he feel would apply to the vast majority.

I'm glad to see Brian read the post and am really interested in his response.

 

[Dan44GT]

Sorry guys, to me there is no "right" or "wrong". Who am I to tell someone that what they are doing is wrong, and as a student, I would not trust anybody that said "what you're doing is wrong". I look at it as not optimal or preferable, or any other way of saying it could be done a better way. As a teacher, I am trying to earn someones respect, even if they absolutely do everything horribly and let the club pass their hands before impact, I dont think it is a "wrong" swing.

Now, this has nothing to do with misinformation, or "junk science". Concepts and theories can be "wrong".

Lastly, if you dont agree, ask yourself this... If somebody's swing is wrong, does anybody have a right swing?

 

[Ringer]

Sorry guys, to me there is no "right" or "wrong". Who am I to tell someone that what they are doing is wrong, and as a student, I would not trust anybody that said "what you're doing is wrong". I look at it as not optimal or preferable, or any other way of saying it could be done a better way. As a teacher, I am trying to earn someones respect, even if they absolutely do everything horribly and let the club pass their hands before impact, I dont think it is a "wrong" swing.

Now, this has nothing to do with misinformation, or "junk science". Concepts and theories can be "wrong".

Lastly, if you dont agree, ask yourself this... If somebody's swing is wrong, does anybody have a right swing?

Everyone has a right way and a wrong way for themselves. The problem is people are trying to build freak'n models to compare to when no two people in our known history have ever swung a club the same way. That totally invalidates ANY concept of a standard right or wrong way.

But there IS a right way and wrong way for THE PLAYER.

As Brian has said, if they hit it better standing on their head... then stand them on their head.

 

[dannyc]

I'm assuming some of the things he would focus on would be a neutral grip, mid body hands, pivot driven power, use of ground forces(which has really helped me recently), uncock and roll procedure with the hands, weight shift on back swing and through swing,etc.

Now I'm not trying to say method, just wondering what a list of basics would be? From what I can tell, we've moved away from trying to create excessive lag and maintaining a bent right wrist, away from trying to hit the ball on the inside quadrant.

I've seen a lot of new information on what may be "wrong" with current instruction, so what's the new "right"

I will have something of substance on this soon.

great question.

perhaps the "do it right" pattern?

 

[Deadly_Scope]

Some of my philosophical points I follow.

• Knowledge is not the same as memorising information.
  
• Understanding is gained by working back from a point of certainty.
  
• All you can ask from a golfer is to control the controllable.
  
• Understand how the mind works.
  

 

[dbl]

Everyone has a right way and a wrong way for themselves. The problem is people are trying to build freak'n models to compare to when no two people in our known history have ever swung a club the same way. That totally invalidates ANY concept of a standard right or wrong way.

Aren't you misstating something in your argument? Take two model-following stackntilters, aren't they the swinging the same'? Or two Hardy 1PS 'swingers'? etc etc How about two model-compliant soft drawers?

So I think once a swing method is created, then people can be trained to follow that method. Maybe you are just talking about self created swings or something, or like Golf Digest 1000-tip induced swings. :shock:

 

[ZAP]

As interesting as it would be to come across a player with no preconceived notions about the swing I do not think you could ever come across such a person. Everyone who has reached the age of 5 has some kind of schema about hitting something with a stick. And about generating power for this stick swing.

I am interested in Brian's thoughts about this though. Where would he go with a brand new golfer?

 

[Ringer]

Aren't you misstating something in your argument? Take two model-following stackntilters, aren't they the swinging the same'? Or two Hardy 1PS 'swingers'? etc etc How about two model-compliant soft drawers?

So I think once a swing method is created, then people can be trained to follow that method. Maybe you are just talking about self created swings or something, or like Golf Digest 1000-tip induced swings. :shock:

I guarantee you that different muscles are firing at differen times. The overall "look" may be strikingly similar, but there will always be differences.

 

[SteveT]

I have seen Brian migrate from a TGM based philosophy, to his current modernized science based approach. So my question, is if Brian had a new student, with no preconceived notions about the golf swing, what are the basics he would teach. Not looking for fixes, but building from scratch. Given all this science, what parts really translate to assisting golfers get better. I've seen a lot of arguing lately over what I consider to be minutia, and I'm not really sure how knowing some of the information would make a person a better golfer.

BManz is an experienced teacher, and I'm sure he will not overload you with scientific stuff that will only confuse. He will store and utilize the science in his brain and mold your swing in simple but effective terminology that will produce the fastest and easiest results.

Right, Brian ..??!!!!

 

[BrandonM7]

I like this question. I hope that when Brian answers we don't have a lot of people that think "okay, that's what I have to do now" when they see what he'd do with a blank-sheet start. But I'm still curious what he (and/or any of the other manz academy instructor) would do. We've seen building blocks, but that was a long time ago.

 

[trickyric67]

I am literally throwing a dart across a room here, but I think that in my limited experiences with Brian he uses the science and technology to gather the information, but then creates a pattern to help the student maximize their particular ability to strike the ball. Some people need NHA, some people need NSA and some soft draw and so on. I attended a school that he and Michael Jacobs taught in Long Island. They taught each student depending on what each individual needed. There was a guy who was about 6'3" and not the most athletic person I have ever met. He was hitting weak slices and they taught him a pattern that was almost completely opposite what I was working on. The guy really improved and in our back 9 Bmanz was giving him little tweaks on swing, course management and even a little psychology to get this guy going and it worked.
So as far as I can conclude Brian's teaching is to assess the student to find out which patterns would help them to be better ball strikers by using the information he has learned through extensive research with top scientists while presenting in a way his students can understand and absorb.

 

[Dan44GT]

Everyone has a right way and a wrong way for themselves. The problem is people are trying to build freak'n models to compare to when no two people in our known history have ever swung a club the same way. That totally invalidates ANY concept of a standard right or wrong way.

But there IS a right way and wrong way for THE PLAYER.

As Brian has said, if they hit it better standing on their head... then stand them on their head.

Ringer,

I understand what you are saying and I think we mainly agree on the surface. I am saying that the word "wrong" is pretty cut and dry, therefore I do not use it. Unless of course it is theory, concept, misinformation type of thing like old ball flight laws.

Pretty bold to tell someone that what they are doing in their swing is "wrong".

If someone plays to a 30 handicap, is their swing wrong?

If someone plays to a +4, is their swing right? Just sayin...