Bubba turning Doral into a pitch and putt..

[Dariusz J.]

If you hold hitting an unusual amount of fairways in high esteem, you like a certain style. Not a better style, just a style. Nothing in history says "this is how the game should be played". It's no different than playing with your pants hiked up around your chest... it's a style.

OK. English is not my native language, so please explain me the meaning of the word "fairway". Doesn't it mean the way the ball should be played on ?

Cheers

 

[duckjr78]

OK. English is not my native language, so please explain me the meaning of the word "fairway". Doesn't it mean the way the ball should be played on ?

Cheers

Etymology of Fairway - 1580s, "navigational channel of a river," from fair + way. Golfing sense is from 1910

Fair in sports is used to denote the opposite of foul. Foul being bad, fair being good.

Way is a course of travel.

So essentially, a fairway is a good way to navigate the distance from a tee to a hole. Nothing about it being the best way for a particular golfer, and certainly nothing at all about it being the way you have to do it to be considered a good golfer.

 

[mgranato]

OK. English is not my native language, so please explain me the meaning of the word "fairway". Doesn't it mean the way the ball should be played on ?

Cheers

Let me preface the following by saying I haven't spent the time doing a detailed search, so if I'm wrong I hope someone will fix me...

I don't think the word "fairway" is in the rules of golf. A decision maybe, but I don't think it's part of the rules.

The word "should" is a strong word in the rules. I think if something is started with a "should", and you don't do said thing, you are in violation of a rule.

Hitting a fairway in regulation is a sometimes easier way to get to the green. Sometimes, but not always.

Hitting a fairway in regulation sometimes will provide you with the best lie/stance for the next shot. Sometimes, but not always.

Hitting a fairway in regulation is sometimes the goal off the tee. Sometimes, but not always.

Why should you/I/they try to do something 100% of the time if it doesn't provide the best potential benefit to your/mine/their score 100% of the time? I try to hit the fairway when it's convenient with what I'm trying to do on that particular hole, not because I'm just standing on the tee. That's the style I enjoy.

 

[niblick1]

To mgranato's point-

You don't have to go back very far too find courses with almost no rough. Go watch the Shell match play events and try to find courses with deep, thick, unplayable rough. There are some courses in those matches that are total jokes. Pebble Beach looks more like today's underfunded muni than today's Doral, in terms of conditioning, in the 50's-60's than a pro layout. Nicklaus and Palmer won plenty of tournaments blowing it way past the opponents and hitting the ball our of nearly non-existent rough to greens that were rolling under 10 (can stop it out of any rough on those greens). Sure there were exceptions, and US Open set-ups were different, but there are plenty of hall-of-famers were bomb-and-gougers when they were young.

 

[magicmarker]

Can anyone help Dariuz out here and name one sport where a contest between two athletes with identical skill levels will be won the majority of the time by the smaller of said athletes? Other than the sport of "sneaking through small spaces," I can't think of one.

Golf, for one. If you see guys like graehme mcdowell, schwartzel and oustheisen and mcilroy as giants I would suggest that you just own a large television, all these small cats beat bigger guys who had just as much skill. Remember Tiger vs Y.E.? Remember 2000 Tiger vs Linebacker navy seal Tiger? It's a diverse game, and it's you, as an individual vs. the course at hand vs how everyone else fared against the same setup. Mentality plays a big role, keep counting out the small guys and they'll gladly accept the underdog role and keep counting their money.

Imagine the scenario of making Luke Donald much much bigger vs current Luke Donald. Big Luke Donald can reach more trouble off the tee where he already struggles, this could hamper his short game if his bad drives are now not just in the rough but in a position where he has to come out sideways instead of just advancing the ball to his comfort zone around the green complex leading him to make more bogeys where small Luke saves the pars.

Tennis, for two. Think Nadal is big? Then you haven't stood next to him, yet he beats the piss out of bigger stronger athletes on the regular. He wouldn't want to be bigger because it would hamper his quickness and reaction time, he won't make it to the baseline in time to smash it back at you, he'll only get there in time to flick it over the net.

Distance running and cycling both cater to smaller athletes, this is mostly due to the fact that more muscles require more oxygen. Run out of breath sooner and you're pretty screwed, the more muscles you have the more oxygen they require, leading many bigger guys to not be able to control their breathing as well as a smaller framed athlete. If you know anything about performing under pressure you must know that controlling your breathing is crucially important to performance and stress levels. Explains why many great soccer players aren't that huge, aside from the fact that the ball is on the ground.

Obviously not every sport, but there are sports out there where agility and quickness, combined with less required oxygen to be taken in, can provide a measurable advantage IMO.

P.S.........Dodgeball!!!

 

[Kevin Shields]

I didn't see it but I hear Bubba hit an unreal shot to 18 from jail. He is way more than just length. He goes after it because he can hit the shots to recover. If he didn't have those skills it would force him into a more control game. Same with Mickelson. A long hitter who doesn't have the recovery ability will have his share of course he can play but will never sine at Majors. Bubba has contended a the US Open.

 

[magicmarker]

Couldn't agree more, they hype the length but it's their creativity that saves their scorecard, or doesn't.

 

[duckjr78]

Golf, for one. If you see guys like graehme mcdowell, schwartzel and oustheisen and mcilroy as giants I would suggest that you just own a large television, all these small cats beat bigger guys who had just as much skill. Remember Tiger vs Y.E.? Remember 2000 Tiger vs Linebacker navy seal Tiger? It's a diverse game, and it's you, as an individual vs. the course at hand vs how everyone else fared against the same setup. Mentality plays a big role, keep counting out the small guys and they'll gladly accept the underdog role and keep counting their money.

Imagine the scenario of making Luke Donald much much bigger vs current Luke Donald. Big Luke Donald can reach more trouble off the tee where he already struggles, this could hamper his short game if his bad drives are now not just in the rough but in a position where he has to come out sideways instead of just advancing the ball to his comfort zone around the green complex leading him to make more bogeys where small Luke saves the pars.

Tennis, for two. Think Nadal is big? Then you haven't stood next to him, yet he beats the piss out of bigger stronger athletes on the regular. He wouldn't want to be bigger because it would hamper his quickness and reaction time, he won't make it to the baseline in time to smash it back at you, he'll only get there in time to flick it over the net.

Distance running and cycling both cater to smaller athletes, this is mostly due to the fact that more muscles require more oxygen. Run out of breath sooner and you're pretty screwed, the more muscles you have the more oxygen they require, leading many bigger guys to not be able to control their breathing as well as a smaller framed athlete. If you know anything about performing under pressure you must know that controlling your breathing is crucially important to performance and stress levels. Explains why many great soccer players aren't that huge, aside from the fact that the ball is on the ground.

Obviously not every sport, but there are sports out there where agility and quickness, combined with less required oxygen to be taken in, can provide a measurable advantage IMO.

P.S.........Dodgeball!!!

I admit when I am wrong or miss something. Dodgeball is the correct answer. Although I'm still partial to the sport of "sneaking through small spaces."

Distance running and distance cycling both would seem to favor smaller athletes. But smaller than what? Smaller than a football player or smaller than the average for that sport? That is my point. I would imagine that Lance Armstrong and Greg Lemond were probably larger than most of their competitors. Soccer as well. Larger men are harder to knock off the ball, harder to win a header against, and it is easier for them to bump you off the ball. Also, a little keeper isn't going to be able to reach the upper 90's. Big goalies can.

There isn't a coach in any sport who has a sign that reads "Smaller, Slower, Weaker" over the doorway to his team's workout room. Bigger guys have an advantage in creating power. Cycling, Tennis, Golf, Football, or Dodgeball "Bigger, Faster, Stronger" wins.

I want to make sure my point doesn't get confused in this discussion. My counterpoint to Dariuz was that in golf, the power players had no penalty for being inaccurate and the tables were somehow tilted in their favor unfairly. Some people want to see the US Open every week. And while I LOVE watching the pros make doubles and look generally inept (my misery loves company), mgranato is right. That isn't how the game has ever really been played.

Bubba missed fairways on Sunday and lost. Proves my point. Luke Donald, Lee Westwood, and Martin Kaymer all had stints as #1. None is in the Bubba, Woodland, Garrigus realm of distance. My point proven once again. Golf as we are watching it now is a pretty fair test.

Small side point. Every single dominant player of every era has been considered long for his time. Not stupid-long like Ray, Bayer, Pohl, Daly, or Bubba, but plenty long. I don't care how small and accurate you are and what course you are playing on, you just ain't gonna beat a long hitter with a hot putter. (this in the context of upper-echelon professional golf, of course)

 

[duckjr78]

I didn't see it but I hear Bubba hit an unreal shot to 18 from jail. He is way more than just length. He goes after it because he can hit the shots to recover. If he didn't have those skills it would force him into a more control game. Same with Mickelson. A long hitter who doesn't have the recovery ability will have his share of course he can play but will never sine at Majors. Bubba has contended a the US Open.

Didn't he kinda make it into a playoff in another major that had similar to US Open conditions?

 

[magicmarker]

You don't want to go too small either for obvious reasons, the strengths your build offers would have to be off the charts exceptional in order to make it. The closer you are to the middle ground the easier it is to be more of an all around athlete. Everything in moderation.

I remember Steve Young saying Brady Quinn would not be a good NFL qb when he was coming out of college. He said you want players with smooth muscles, not the musclebound ones, for pretty much all the positions. The Ali look is what you want, smooth, not strained, fluid. I tend to agree.

Obviously nobody wants the weakest losers at the back of the pack lol

 

[Lifter]

I didn't see it but I hear Bubba hit an unreal shot to 18 from jail. He is way more than just length. He goes after it because he can hit the shots to recover. If he didn't have those skills it would force him into a more control game. Same with Mickelson. A long hitter who doesn't have the recovery ability will have his share of course he can play but will never sine at Majors. Bubba has contended a the US Open.

Which U.S. Open did Bubba contend at?

 

[magicmarker]

2009 he was in 8th place at Bethpage after Saturday (he had the lowest round on Saturday) but fell to 18th after a Sunday when only a handful of players went under par.

 

[dbl]

Bubba in Playoff in PGA at Whistling Straits.

 

[Robbohank]

I didn't see it but I hear Bubba hit an unreal shot to 18 from jail. He is way more than just length. He goes after it because he can hit the shots to recover. If he didn't have those skills it would force him into a more control game. Same with Mickelson. A long hitter who doesn't have the recovery ability will have his share of course he can play but will never sine at Majors. Bubba has contended a the US Open.

All the more baffling that he could have such exquisite control of face/path on his 2nd shot on 18 (it was a true "he's got NO shot Kenny" moment) yet be so totally off the planet with some of his drives in round 4. He drove it like a testosterone laden 16 year old showing off for his girlfiend at a podunk driving range the entire front side with the highlight being the push block slice that entered a hazard no one knew even existed.

Do you think it's his self-admitted ADD or a swing that can get that out of kilter? Does he simply try to do "too much" with every shot?

 

[dschultz6072]

I didn't see it but I hear Bubba hit an unreal shot to 18 from jail. He is way more than just length. He goes after it because he can hit the shots to recover. If he didn't have those skills it would force him into a more control game. Same with Mickelson. A long hitter who doesn't have the recovery ability will have his share of course he can play but will never sine at Majors. Bubba has contended a the US Open.

And the US PGA.

Lifter, 07 in Oakmont.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Etymology of Fairway - 1580s, "navigational channel of a river," from fair + way. Golfing sense is from 1910

Fair in sports is used to denote the opposite of foul. Foul being bad, fair being good.

Way is a course of travel.

So essentially, a fairway is a good way to navigate the distance from a tee to a hole. Nothing about it being the best way for a particular golfer, and certainly nothing at all about it being the way you have to do it to be considered a good golfer.

Thank you. So, it is just a good way to play the hole, yes ?

Let me preface the following by saying I haven't spent the time doing a detailed search, so if I'm wrong I hope someone will fix me...

I don't think the word "fairway" is in the rules of golf. A decision maybe, but I don't think it's part of the rules.

The word "should" is a strong word in the rules. I think if something is started with a "should", and you don't do said thing, you are in violation of a rule.

Hitting a fairway in regulation is a sometimes easier way to get to the green. Sometimes, but not always.

Hitting a fairway in regulation sometimes will provide you with the best lie/stance for the next shot. Sometimes, but not always.

Hitting a fairway in regulation is sometimes the goal off the tee. Sometimes, but not always.

Why should you/I/they try to do something 100% of the time if it doesn't provide the best potential benefit to your/mine/their score 100% of the time? I try to hit the fairway when it's convenient with what I'm trying to do on that particular hole, not because I'm just standing on the tee. That's the style I enjoy.

Thank you. But I did not ask about rules, rather about connotation of the part "fair" in "fairway"; Say, the connotation of "fair play" is that one should (not must, but should) play this way.

Golf, for one. If you see guys like graehme mcdowell, schwartzel and oustheisen and mcilroy as giants I would suggest that you just own a large television, all these small cats beat bigger guys who had just as much skill. Remember Tiger vs Y.E.? Remember 2000 Tiger vs Linebacker navy seal Tiger? It's a diverse game, and it's you, as an individual vs. the course at hand vs how everyone else fared against the same setup. Mentality plays a big role, keep counting out the small guys and they'll gladly accept the underdog role and keep counting their money.

Imagine the scenario of making Luke Donald much much bigger vs current Luke Donald. Big Luke Donald can reach more trouble off the tee where he already struggles, this could hamper his short game if his bad drives are now not just in the rough but in a position where he has to come out sideways instead of just advancing the ball to his comfort zone around the green complex leading him to make more bogeys where small Luke saves the pars.

Tennis, for two. Think Nadal is big? Then you haven't stood next to him, yet he beats the piss out of bigger stronger athletes on the regular. He wouldn't want to be bigger because it would hamper his quickness and reaction time, he won't make it to the baseline in time to smash it back at you, he'll only get there in time to flick it over the net.

Distance running and cycling both cater to smaller athletes, this is mostly due to the fact that more muscles require more oxygen. Run out of breath sooner and you're pretty screwed, the more muscles you have the more oxygen they require, leading many bigger guys to not be able to control their breathing as well as a smaller framed athlete. If you know anything about performing under pressure you must know that controlling your breathing is crucially important to performance and stress levels. Explains why many great soccer players aren't that huge, aside from the fact that the ball is on the ground.

Obviously not every sport, but there are sports out there where agility and quickness, combined with less required oxygen to be taken in, can provide a measurable advantage IMO.

P.S.........Dodgeball!!!

Extremely well said. Great post.

My counterpoint to Dariuz was that in golf, the power players had no penalty for being inaccurate and the tables were somehow tilted in their favor unfairly. Some people want to see the US Open every week. And while I LOVE watching the pros make doubles and look generally inept (my misery loves company), mgranato is right. That isn't how the game has ever really been played.

The point is that neither me nor, I guess, others who are tired with today's pampered setups would like to see US Open severe conditions every week. The point is that having such a setup once a year (and even less because not each US Open is such penal) is definitely too seldom, at least for people like me, who has almost a permanent US Open setup from tee to green on my home course and watching thousand times better golfers playing kid's games while earning millions.

Cheers

 

[Kevin Shields]

Still have to remember that sports is nothing more than entertainment. That's it. Easier rules for NFL offenses, shorter fences in MLB, 2 line pass, and longer hitting courses have all been deemed more entertaining to the consumer.

I like a good 1-0 pitching dual as much as the next guy but game 6 last year was the best game I've ever seen. As for golf, I thought the Bear Trap was a perfect setup for a regular Tour event. Exciting, big hitters could use their advantage but it wasn't the main factor. Strong, controlled golf was required. And the guy who plays the strongest, controlled game in the world won.

 

[Tball88]

On a different note, but man do I hate the nfl rules on pass interference now. How the heck would donnie shell, lester hayes, mel blount, and those guys have played today. They'd of been flagged on every pass.

Also, is it me, or do they call more charges in college basketball then ever. I thought it use to be kind of difficult to get a charge, you had to have position for like 5 minutes, now they barely get two feet down the guy has already left the ground and gets called for a charge...oh well..

 

[conkanen]

On a different note, but man do I hate the nfl rules on pass interference now. How the heck would donnie shell, lester hayes, mel blount, and those guys have played today. They'd of been flagged on every pass.

Also, is it me, or do they call more charges in college basketball then ever. I thought it use to be kind of difficult to get a charge, you had to have position for like 5 minutes, now they barely get two feet down the guy has already left the ground and gets called for a charge...oh well..

Goes to show you how good Dan Marino really was.