Chipping issues - FLW-itis in the short game

[BrendanC]

Looking to make a correct diagnosis.

Is it important to have the leading edge of the club flush to the ground when chipping?

Having had FLW-itis, I developed a habit of making sure my hands were ahead of the ball when chipping. But when moving the hands ahead I also got into the habit of opening the face quite a bit without realising, so that the heel of the club is ahead of the toe.

Does having the leading edge angled, even slightly, instead of 'square' make it more likely the club will not interact with the ground properly?

I think it causes to chipping sh*nks, 'pushes', flubs and poor contact off tighter lies. Chips/short shots fly too high off better lies/when timed well.

Red herring or genuine issue/solution?

 

[Jared Willerson]

You want to use the middle of the sole of the club, not the leading edge.

Make practice strokes brushing the ground with the middle of the sole, no divots and see if that makes a difference.

 

[BrendanC]

Thanks Jared.

What I'm finding is that when the club is soled at the angle I'm talking about (heel ahead of toe, due to hands being ahead of ball), it brings the leading edge into play more and means the bounce doesn't slide along the ground properly.

So you get the edge catching ground, even when you have hands ahead, have done everything right etc etc etc - it's a killer!

To correct the bad habit, club feels 'closed' at address, though mirror shows that it is just square.

The Rule of 11/12 made a big difference, but chips and pitches with anything from 7 iron up still give me the heebie-jeebies.

 

[cwdlaw223]

Jared -

Do you advocate a wide sole wedge? If so, how wide and what wedge do you use? I find it very difficult to hit the middle of the sole of my wedges on a consistent basis on the ground at impact. I know the shot, just can't execute it consistently. I have a steep attack angle, hands way ahead and damp fairways drive me nuts.

 

[Jared Willerson]

I use Scratch Golf wedges with a grind that promotes more sole contact than leading edge contact. I don't know if you are familiar with Scratch but they make wedges based on 3 characterizations Digger/Driver (i.e. handle dragger) Driver/Slider and Sweeper/Slider

DD wedges have a lot of the back of the flange ground off and a lot of heel relief, they also have a wider sole; DS wedges are similar but with less bounce. SS wedges have low bounce.

I play with DS wedges and practice with an SS because it is harder to make mid sole contact.

Hope that helps, in general if you are steep and handle dragging I would think a wider sole wedge would be the best bet.

 

[softconsult]

A couple of years ago, Brian fixed my steep angle of attack on pitches by pointing out that I was "Popping Out" on the backswing. Took about 5 minutes to get it corrected and has worked well ever since. Since then chunks still happen, but much much less frequent.

 

[Jwat]

Thanks Jared.

What I'm finding is that when the club is soled at the angle I'm talking about (heel ahead of toe, due to hands being ahead of ball), it brings the leading edge into play more and means the bounce doesn't slide along the ground properly.

So you get the edge catching ground, even when you have hands ahead, have done everything right etc etc etc - it's a killer!

To correct the bad habit, club feels 'closed' at address, though mirror shows that it is just square.

The Rule of 11/12 made a big difference, but chips and pitches with anything from 7 iron up still give me the heebie-jeebies.

Try delofting the club on the BS and holding it on the DS. I think "turn the face towards the ground, then keep it facing ground on DS"

I use this shot on most chips and pitch shots unless I need to land it softer. Brian showed to me a couple years ago. For me, nothing has eliminated more strokes than this motion. Really, that is what I do for shots 110 and in, so it is very effective for me.

 

[BrendanC]

Thanks all, looking forward to trying these ideas.

 

[drewyallop]

I use Scratch Golf wedges with a grind that promotes more sole contact than leading edge contact. I don't know if you are familiar with Scratch but they make wedges based on 3 characterizations Digger/Driver (i.e. handle dragger) Driver/Slider and Sweeper/Slider

DD wedges have a lot of the back of the flange ground off and a lot of heel relief, they also have a wider sole; DS wedges are similar but with less bounce. SS wedges have low bounce.

I play with DS wedges and practice with an SS because it is harder to make mid sole contact.

Hope that helps, in general if you are steep and handle dragging I would think a wider sole wedge would be the best bet.

Jared,

That is very sophisticated product segmentation. Shows the company has done some deep research on the requirements for different pitching styles and made it easy to choose without having to think about all the parameters like bounce.

 

[cwdlaw223]

Try delofting the club on the BS and holding it on the DS. I think "turn the face towards the ground, then keep it facing ground on DS"

I use this shot on most chips and pitch shots unless I need to land it softer. Brian showed to me a couple years ago. For me, nothing has eliminated more strokes than this motion. Really, that is what I do for shots 110 and in, so it is very effective for me.

I agree, but why does that work better? Does the closing of the clubface cause the leading edge to strike first??

 

[magicmarker]

I agree, but why does that work better? Does the closing of the clubface cause the leading edge to strike first??

just the opposite for me, I find it easier to not have the leading edge strike first with this method. I think it may be because the direction of the shot and the trajectory of the shot become more consistent, almost predetermined, leaving you to only focus on the length and low point of the stroke.

If you open the face you gotta worry about squaring it back up, if you're late the shot can be more of a cut that doesn't run out and if you're early you will pull it off the target and a little long.

 

[spmurph]

Doesn't it depend on how you close the face? FLW/BRW and a roll will cause more of a leading edge strike whereas closing the face with more LWE/RWF will allow you to use the bounce. I could be wrong though.

 

[Jwat]

Doesn't it depend on how you close the face? FLW/BRW and a roll will cause more of a leading edge strike whereas closing the face with more LWE/RWF will allow you to use the bounce. I could be wrong though.

I think you are correct. I definitley don't have any roll in my forearms or the clubface. I can actually hit a pretty high flop shot doing this.

 

[BrendanC]

I think another major mistake I make is to take a normal (neutral) grip and then lean the hands forward.

Better to put club in position and then take grip?

 

[BrendanC]

One more observation - I think I had been 'adding'/increasing radius during the backswing when chipping.

Have worked on not adding any tension - e.g. by reaching - during backswing, and also using the left shoulder properly (as per Ideas About Release).

Section on MOI of the club and weightshift in IAR video sparked some good thoughts.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Here's the issue, you need wedges for the following:

your particular wedge/pitch style shots
the turf you are playing on

In a lot of situations, you will have wedges for one and not the other :-/. It's best to get wedges that suit your tendencies and the SHOTS you are trying to create with them that also tie into your typical/local playing conditions.

For instance:

I live in Chicago and play on some softer bent grass fairways, by that definition ALONE i'll need more bounce because the leading edge is going to dig more than a firmer grass in a warmer/dried out climate. However more bounce generally means higher leading edge which means i can't really play for very well "nipped" shots off the fairway because the leading edge is going to sit up too high. So you can see how you really need to take a lot of this into consideration.

There are always trade-offs, need to figure out which works for you.