CLASS: Learning from TrackMan Research on Smash Factor

[iseekabetterswing]

v = (2*Pi*r)/T

v = velocity
r = radius
T = period

Since the toe is further away it will have greater speed than the heel. So what does hinged action have to do with this?

 

[mb6606]

Please explain.

TM people stated "2) the rotation of the club head during the downswing."
I assume the rotation begins before contact and continues though contact into follow through.

 

[Brian Manzella]

No.....

TM people stated "2) the rotation of the club head during the downswing."
I assume the rotation begins before contact and continues though contact into follow through.

I never said that there was ZERO rotation through impact.

I said that HORIZONTAL HINGING DOES NOT EXIST IN THE REAL WORLD!!!!!!!!!

Why did I say that?

Well, no one has measured it on a good 6°-3D machine.

You book guys....

 

[Bronco Billy]

Short Radius of Curvature... TM's SF Calculated Using a 2 Foot Shaft?

Yes, but remember the discussion about the impact time duration being very short. I have no data, but I'm surprised the difference would be as great as stated since like I said that would correlate to a relatively short radius of curvature (of the clubhead path).

What are We or TM Missing Here???????

 

[KOC]

What can we learn from the above stat.?
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/5177/trackmanil2.jpg

 

[Kevin Shields]

Looks to me, assuming centered hit, clubhead speed is still king. Rocco has the most optimal launch and spin yet is the shortest.

One thing to learn is I'll bet a fair amount of better weekend players, relatively speaking, swing 110mph. They could move it out there if they could get spin down and launch up.

 

[Guitar Hero]

What can we learn from the above stat.?
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/5177/trackmanil2.jpg

It is missing the most important stat. SMASH FACTOR

 

[Guitar Hero]

Looks to me, assuming centered hit, clubhead speed is still king. Rocco has the most optimal launch and spin yet is the shortest.

One thing to learn is I'll bet a fair amount of better weekend players, relatively speaking, swing 110mph. They could move it out there if they could get spin down and launch up.

You need the SMASH FACTOR stat. to get the real deal on Rocco. I am sure it is lower than the other swing at 110 mph and this is why he is shorter.

 

[Steve Greffen]

What do you mean Ames is 1.47 Choi is 1.48 Mediate is 1.47 and Mickelson is 1.48. They didnt calculate it for you but in some ways they dont need to the proof is in the distance, and they are all pretty close to the same as far as efficiency.

 

[lasse]

It is missing the most important stat. SMASH FACTOR

Smashfactor is ball-speed/clubhead-speed?
Which gives (rounded):
Ames: 1.47
Choi: 1.48
Mediate: 1.47
Mickelson: 1.48

One should also remember trackman (assuming that is what is used to get the numbers) reads clubhead speed with an accuracy of +- 1mph so the numbers above might be slightly off. If for instance Mediate's clubhead-speed really was 109 instead of 110 his smashfactor would be closer to 1.49...

I think the only conclusion that can be drawn is what Kevin Shields said...for _these_ guys, clubhead-speed is king.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Looks to me, assuming centered hit, clubhead speed is still king. Rocco has the most optimal launch and spin yet is the shortest.

One thing to learn is I'll bet a fair amount of better weekend players, relatively speaking, swing 110mph. They could move it out there if they could get spin down and launch up.

From my experience fitting players, very few players can get it up to the 110mph arena unless you are looking at a limited sample of fairly good low handicap players.

 

[Steve Greffen]

From this chart, I believe it is also an average of the front nine numbers. Not a swing taken from one spot or one hole (Trackman Data Front 9) When you average which holes they play in certain fashions and what the wind conditions were, and how much their spin rates were up or down on into the wind down wind or side wind, the yardage distance could be skewed in some way plus or minus distance.

I would love to hear what the commentators said about the data!

 

[Bronco Billy]

I'm Not a Commentator.... But...

From this chart, I believe it is also an average of the front nine numbers. Not a swing taken from one spot or one hole (Trackman Data Front 9) When you average which holes they play in certain fashions and what the wind conditions were, and how much their spin rates were up or down on into the wind down wind or side wind, the yardage distance could be skewed in some way plus or minus distance.

I would love to hear what the commentators said about the data!

Statistically Speaking the Averages of 9 Holes for These Players Shots Has Much More Descriptive and Predictive Value of their Real Time Performace.... Than Fixed Individual Shot Samples as You seem to Suggest are The Golden Grail.... Have a Great Day....

 

[KOC]

A shot's data from Phil...

 

[Bronco Billy]

Actually CH Speed and Ball Speed --> SF is King....

Smashfactor is ball-speed/clubhead-speed?
Which gives (rounded):
Ames: 1.47
Choi: 1.48
Mediate: 1.47
Mickelson: 1.48

One should also remember trackman (assuming that is what is used to get the numbers) reads clubhead speed with an accuracy of +- 1mph so the numbers above might be slightly off. If for instance Mediate's clubhead-speed really was 109 instead of 110 his smashfactor would be closer to 1.49...

I think the only conclusion that can be drawn is what Kevin Shields said...for _these_ guys, clubhead-speed is king .

Kevin said Assuming Centered Hits CH Speed is King....Well of Course Kevin.... Assuming Centered Hits Negates The Need for the SF Statistic Entirely... One Must Not Forget the Worst Case Non Centered Hit... The Whiff... Which Yields Zero(0) Ball Speed and the Worst Case SF.... Have a Great Day....

 

[Bronco Billy]

Actually You Calculated the Theoritcal SF... Not the TM SF....

What do you mean Ames is 1.47 Choi is 1.48 Mediate is 1.47 and Mickelson is 1.48. They didnt calculate it for you but in some ways they dont need to the proof is in the distance, and they are all pretty close to the same as far as efficiency.

And Also the Proof is NOT in the Distance but the Proof is in the SF which is Caclulated Using the Ball Speed and the CH Speed.... Have a Great Day.....

 

[Bronco Billy]

Also One Should Remember... Human Perception is +- Reality....

Smashfactor is ball-speed/clubhead-speed?
Which gives (rounded):
Ames: 1.47
Choi: 1.48
Mediate: 1.47
Mickelson: 1.48

One should also remember trackman (assuming that is what is used to get the numbers) reads clubhead speed with an accuracy of +- 1mph so the numbers above might be slightly off. If for instance Mediate's clubhead-speed really was 109 instead of 110 his smashfactor would be closer to 1.49...

I think the only conclusion that can be drawn is what Kevin Shields said...for _these_ guys, clubhead-speed is king.

Have a Great Day...

 

[KOC]

From trackman web video...

“You really hit up on the ball, only a few can really do that, maybe five to ten out there…low spine, high launch; a really good combination….what you have to do is to increase your club head speed…with your body built, you should hit longer” Trackman spokesman spoke to Robert Jan Derksen.<O</O
<O
Average launch angle for 7 driver shots was 13.3 degree, ball speed 162; 254 yards carry. From Robert’s web site, it was stated his weapon is R7 7.5 degree driver. <O
<O
While according to internet source, Phil Mickelson’s weapon is Callaway FT-5 with 9.5 degree loft, and his launch angle is around 9.1 to 9.3; ball speed 173; 280+ carry distance.<O</O
<O
Questions:
<O
Is Phil hit down?<O
How Robert to get more distance? Which way is more easy, say body training, weight lifting? Swing change? New swing coach? so as to get more clubhead speed? <O
<O
Pros, what will you do?

 

[Brian Manzella]

KOC,

Are you trying to shoot (down) the messenger?

 

[mjstrong]

Previous thread...

Is Phil hit down?<O
How Robert to get more distance? Which way is more easy, say body training, weight lifting? Swing change? New swing coach? so as to get more clubhead speed? <O
<O
Pros, what will you do?

I think on a lot of his driver shots, Phil (also Tiger, and many others) do hit down on the ball (negative Angle of Attack).

This leads me to one of my biggest beliefs (so far...), that there is a trade off between efficient impact conditions and efficient launch conditions (see earlier thread). I think the best players will still hit down on the ball (or at least not hit up on it as much as is "most optimal") because their swing is better when they do.

I also don't like confusing the "optimal" term with maximizing distance. If I maximize my distance into the bush, how optimal is that? "Optimal" to me means something more than just the most distance.

Bubba Watson has shown a great ability to hit more up on it when he wants to bomb it, but also hit down on it when the shot calls for a fairway finder.

My hypothesis (I eagerly await the trackman data on this) is that the most consistent, accurate drivers of the ball will hit down on the ball (or at least not hit up on it as much), and the best overall drivers (PGA TOUR's stat combining distance and accuracy rankings) will be the guys able to vary their attack angle.