Closed Club Face

[coachwalls]

I cant seem to find an answer to this question using search so forgive me if its been covered.

What would the swing tendencies be with a club face that is to closed during the backswing?

Furthermore, how would I fix it?

When I try to swing back with a more neutral club face I tend to leave it open at impact and will also get the occasional shank. I've been a closed face player most of my career but its really gotten out of control.

All I can do is try to get the club inside and chase the ball down the line. My impact has gotten very shallow also and I've lost distance control with the short irons. I have zero confidence with the driver. I'm hitting pulls and pull hooks, the occasional straight ball, and have started drop kicking a few every round. The odd thing is when I hit it well I haven't noticed any loss of distance. I can't hit a fade with any club to save my life.

I hit more shots off the toe every round than I can count. This might be more frustrating than anything. Maybe.

My lower back would appreciate some help.

 

[Lifter]

Personally, I also tend to hit the ball toward the toe.

Maybe you're coming in underplane on the downswing. You might approach impact with an open clubface, and the impacts on the toe help straighten out the ballflight.

Why not try to steepen your downswing plane? Stand closer to the ball? Underplane + closed clubface = trouble

Steep downswing plane + closed clubface might work well, though.

 

[Lindsey Newman]

Fix the face. Steep downswing with truly closed face = left to left if you're right handed. The reason you're hitting it off the toe is likely to be that you're subconsciously working the club under plane late to open the face, which stands the shaft up (inside steep late).

Get the grip neutral so that you CAN steepen the shaft to square the face. After playing closed for long you've probably ingrained a "work under move" which is keeping or opening the face. You may also be across the line or steep up top.

So, you gotta fix both the face and the plane and then learn to tumble. You'll feel open to open at the top which will allow you to steepen and close coming down.

 

[Keefer]

In order to steepen the downswing wouldn't you need to steepen your backswing (more upright feel)? To steepen your backswing wouldn't you just take it back higher, more up the wall so to speak. So if the shaft at the top were to fall instead of say hitting your shoulder it would now hit your neck. Then just try to come down on the same steeper plane.

 

[Lindsey Newman]

No, to steepen your downswing you most likely would not want to steepen your backswing.

 

[Keefer]

No, to steepen your downswing you most likely would not want to steepen your backswing.

When I think of more upright swings I think of golfers like Nicklaus, Watson (Tom and Bubba), Norman, Couples, Daly, Montgomery, Goosen, Elkington, Sabbatini, Hoch and Payne Stewart. Their backswings had the shaft above the shoulder, some nearer the neck.

Without re-routing your downswing why wouldn't it be easier to swing back more upright (steeper) to steepen your downswing? Seems logical, but I know many things about the golf swing seem to defy logic.

Just seems like it would be easier to swing up and down on a similar plane without re-routing the club.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Similar to what Lindsey said; the reason why you shank it when you are trying to get the face more open is because you probably swing too far to the right already and more than likely play some kind of push draw. So now you weaken your grip and/or open the face more but still swing that far in/out and it's shank city.

 

[rogerdodger]

I had the same issue and at times I could play well. My first lesson with Brian he pointed out my issue was path and proved it by telling me to hit fades. I was so inside-out that all I could do was hit straight pushes or shanks. He had me fix the path first, which made me open the face more. I still fall into it and whenever I am playing lousy I try to hit fades and see where they end up. When they shank I know I am to in to out.

 

[wulsy]

Aim right and try to come over the top of it with an open face. When the ball starts fading, stop aiming right.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

I had the same issue and at times I could play well. My first lesson with Brian he pointed out my issue was path and proved it by telling me to hit fades. I was so inside-out that all I could do was hit straight pushes or shanks. He had me fix the path first, which made me open the face more. I still fall into it and whenever I am playing lousy I try to hit fades and see where they end up. When they shank I know I am to in to out.

Generally with hookers or extreme inside/out people you fix path first as Brian did with you but it depends on the golfers central issue. Sometimes a poor inside/out path is due to people with open clubfaces who just learned how to swing right and flip it.

But in general the rules are:

1) Slicers = fix face first
2) Hookers = fix path first

 

[mgranato]

Seen this recently with guys who were massively (approaching double digits) inside-out, massive handle draggers trying like hell to keep the face from closing (more). All from scratch to better players, but those combinations made for some ugly misses.. Good advice above.

 

[hp12c]

NHA cure me. It took awhile to really sink in but it works. Its fun to be at the range and hook a ball from one end of the driving to range to the other and then hit a nice little straight ball. Makes practicing fun.

 

[Erik_K]

Let me also describe some of my problems since they are related to this post:

Maybe the hardest thing for me to do is hit a push draw. Maybe this stems from the misuse of the D-plane. But when I line up 'closed' to the target and I try to get the face open to the target, but slightly closed to the path it seems that the ball normally starts dead straight and hooks too much.

I wonder if part of my problem is ball position. Often when I hear better players describe fading and drawing the ball they tend to move the ball up for a fade and slightly back for a draw. I might be making things overly difficult with a ball position that promotes a fade shot. It's very hard to hit the inside portion of the ball if it's too far forward in the stance.

I am getting a new phone soon that can shoot 300 fps. I plan on submitting some video soon.

Erik

 

[Kevin Shields]

Erik, wouldn't it be fair to say that if its hooking too much your face is more than slightly closed to the path?

 

[Erik_K]

I don't disagree with that. I could be slamming the face shut late in the DS leading to a face that is pointing left at impact.

 

[conkanen]

Erik, wouldn't it be fair to say that if its hooking too much your face is more than slightly closed to the path?

For sure. I am suffering similar issues. I am hitting screaming hooks with the driver lately. During my last rd on the last few holes I was able to get the face "less" closed to the path and I finally got a huge draw that started down the right side and drew back to the middle of the fairway. It's a scary thing for a guy who's miss was right of right and normally plays a straight ball to slight fade.

I dunno what the deal is but I woke this year hitting screaming hooks out of the gate. So I am trying to "get around" the course by changing the face angle to match my in-out path better.

 

[DCgolf]

The problem with taking it back shut is the body's reaction to it. "Rock and block" Jacobs called it. Shallow angle, in to out, flip hooks with the body backing up. Try massively rolling the arms (fanning) the club open going back. This will flatten you and put you more on your right side going back from where you can turn thru and swing left coming down.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

The problem with taking it back shut is the body's reaction to it. "Rock and block" Jacobs called it. Shallow angle, in to out, flip hooks with the body backing up. Try massively rolling the arms (fanning) the club open going back. This will flatten you and put you more on your right side going back from where you can turn thru and swing left coming down.

Assuming you know how to properly tumble and recover from that big open face...doesn't work for me but does for many.

 

[DCgolf]

Assuming you know how to properly tumble and recover from that big open face...doesn't work for me but does for many.

Feel vs real. Anyone taking it back rocked and shut is not going to be soon flat and rolled open. It will just feel that way. The problem is impact. If they were shallow before and they do make a backswing change first, they will be REALLY shallow now. But sometimes you have to take that route with straight up and shut. In my experience at least.