Closed Counterfall Question

[ekennedy]

By now, much has been written and discussed about the benefits of a non-tugging, closed shoulders counterfall as it pertains to directing the proper handpath during transition. This was a terrific part of the Soft Draw Pattern and very beneficial to most students, especially those students whose upper body tends to unwind very early.

I was watching some video that I've viewed in the past, but looking at it in a different light.

Despite the fact that it MAY lead to an overly positive (rightward) path, is there any downside to INCREASING the shoulder turn at transition a few degrees (like Kenny Perry), provided the player did not make an overly stretched backswing to begin with?

It seems as though as Kenny's weight begins to shift FORWARD, his hips and shoulders close slightly, directing his club away from and not toward the ball.

Any thoughts?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Looks good to me.

The main thing about the tug idea, is that is separates the left shoulder from the back.

You can turn your back more in transition if it helps.

 

[Bonesy]

Is it valid to think about carrying your hands in the "back facing front" transition to somewhere directly above the ball before making the first move with your hands/shoulders? Need to figure out a way to get my handpath more forward (to ensure clean contact) while also rotating the coupling point.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Is it valid to think about carrying your hands in the "back facing front" transition to somewhere directly above the ball before making the first move with your hands/shoulders?

Yes!

I'm doing it in my chair right now with my back on the chair back.

 

[softconsult]

"Is it valid to think about carrying your hands in the "back facing front" transition to somewhere directly above the ball before making the first move with your hands/shoulders? Need to figure out a way to get my handpath more forward (to ensure clean contact) while also rotating the coupling point. "

Obviously, Brian understood this. I realize that writing about this stuff is difficult at best, but these two sentences are really confusing for me. I get the "back facing front" idea. Please explain the carry hands to somewhere directly above the ball. To me directly above the ball is impossible. I presume you are talking about the backswing. Do you mean lined up with the ball? Handpath more forward?

 

[Bonesy]

Take a look at the KP video above. It appears as if his hands go toward the target (and thus sort of over the golf ball if looked at from a face on view) during the transition (just a tiny bit) by way of a back-facing-the-target counterfall. I was wondering if that put his hands in a better position to start the downswing.

 

[softconsult]

Bonesy, yes, thought that was what you meant. Let me share this. For years and years I have had this move that is a get to the end of the backswing and then turn the shoulders more before or during the transition. Pro's at several different clubs where I was a member over the years told me how bad that move was and tried to help me stop doing it. During my one an only lesson with Brian about 3 years ago, he observed it and commented on it. I was ready for him to say it was bad. Instead he said to definitely keep it.

 

[ekennedy]

Bonesy, yes, thought that was what you meant. Let me share this. For years and years I have had this move that is a get to the end of the backswing and then turn the shoulders more before or during the transition. Pro's at several different clubs where I was a member over the years told me how bad that move was and tried to help me stop doing it. During my one an only lesson with Brian about 3 years ago, he observed it and commented on it. I was ready for him to say it was bad. Instead he said to definitely keep it.

How many times do teachers want students to change for the sake of change? Or looks? Brian obviously saw that it wasn't hurting your game, or at the very least wasn't contributing to any issues you were having.

Hardest job in any lesson...figuring out what to leave alone.

 

[OLIVER1]

Hardest job in any lesson...figuring out what to leave alone.

Very, VERY good commentary.

 

[Kevin Shields]

By now, much has been written and discussed about the benefits of a non-tugging, closed shoulders counterfall as it pertains to directing the proper handpath during transition. This was a terrific part of the Soft Draw Pattern and very beneficial to most students, especially those students whose upper body tends to unwind very early.

I was watching some video that I've viewed in the past, but looking at it in a different light.

Despite the fact that it MAY lead to an overly positive (rightward) path, is there any downside to INCREASING the shoulder turn at transition a few degrees (like Kenny Perry), provided the player did not make an overly stretched backswing to begin with?

It seems as though as Kenny's weight begins to shift FORWARD, his hips and shoulders close slightly, directing his club away from and not toward the ball.

Any thoughts?

Faldo, Price, Perry, Couples all did it. Good enough for me.