club championships results, handicaps are BS

[OLIVER1]

I remember one of the first times I played in the States...Par 4, I hit down the middle, hit a good-looking shot towards the flag and come up a bit short and buried in the face of a bunker. I lash away at it, it rolls down into the bottom of the bunker from where I play a pretty good shot to 5 feet or so and then I miss the putt for a nice six.
My buddy swipes 2 out of bounds on the tee box and also writes a six on the card (before he gets off the end of the tee box) for Equitable Stroke Control. I'd never heard that before. What a load of codswallop...
BUT, there MUST be advantages for the USGA rule, there MUST be, otherwise it would be swept away, surely...

 

[birly-shirly]

I remember one of the first times I played in the States...Par 4, I hit down the middle, hit a good-looking shot towards the flag and come up a bit short and buried in the face of a bunker. I lash away at it, it rolls down into the bottom of the bunker from where I play a pretty good shot to 5 feet or so and then I miss the putt for a nice six.
My buddy swipes 2 out of bounds on the tee box and also writes a six on the card (before he gets off the end of the tee box) for Equitable Stroke Control. I'd never heard that before. What a load of codswallop...
BUT, there MUST be advantages for the USGA rule, there MUST be, otherwise it would be swept away, surely...

Eh? If I swipe 2 OOB and card an 8, then I believe that my h/c convener can upgrade my score on that hole to a double bogey for handicapping purposes. But I still need to sign for a snowman.

 

[OLIVER1]

Eh? If I swipe 2 OOB and card an 8, then I believe that my h/c convener can upgrade my score on that hole to a double bogey for handicapping purposes. But I still need to sign for a snowman.

Birly, I haven't been a UK resident for 13 years or so. Run it by me again as to how it works with R&A nowadays...

I know there is also a floating SSS which can differ by 2 strokes up or down over the nominal course par. This is easy to do in the UK when handicaps scores are only recorded in tournament play. (Not counting a general adjustment by the handicap secretary)

 

[Tball88]

Oliver you're exactly right. In your example above any single digit handicapper is suppose to take a max of 6 on that par four where they hit two out of bounds, when in reality, 8 is probably the best they could possibly do. So get to the club championship with no max equivalents and people get exposed. you had 9's, 10's, and even a 12 carded.

 

[DCgolf]

Or do it like Augusta does it...You get a shot for every bogey or worse from your last round. You lose a shot for every birdie or better. max 18, minimum 0. 9 bogies, 9 pars, your a 9 next round.

 

[OLIVER1]

That's an interesting way, DC. Can that handicap travel?
It appears that the machinations behind constructing a handicap are governed different ideologies, if you will, between R&A and USGA. It seems that the R&A wants your 'cap to reflect your average score, loosely speaking, whereas the USGA wants your 'cap to reflect the best you can do, within reason.

Not sure which one is the best, but after growing up on the former, it's difficult to get your head entirely around the latter. If someone in the UK told me they were a one handicap then I'd expect them to be, in the words of Wulsy, sheet hot. When I first came to the US and saw one handicappers shooting mid-eighties I was puzzled for the longest time.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Jim, interesting point on course setup, a couple of things that i think really help make the scores go up are

1. Most guys don't play from the tips all year, they get to a 3-7 handicap from the middle tees and think they can jump to the tips at championship time and it won't make that much of a difference. Big mistake. If you want to play in the championship flight, you better be playing the tips all the time.

2. Course was much tougher. Fairways got tightened up by around 5 yards and rough was grown up another 2 inches. Balls just off the fairway were sinking in deep bermuda rough and you had no idea how it would come out, flyer or a chunker. Most of the year, rough isn't bad at all and a five yard shot off the fairway is no damage. Same for rough around the green, barely miss a green and you were deep and guys didn't know how to handle those shots. usually rough off the green, no big deal.

3. No max equivalent changes not only your score but your mindset. During the year a tucked right pin on a par three and guys will go firing right at it, knowing worse I can get is double. In the tournament guys were shooting at the middle of the green scared to death to go pin chasing. Results, approach shots on average further away, and more three putts.

Add it all up and it gets ugly in a hurry..

Sorry for the harsh language but that's retarded; either always make the course that tough or don't trick it up so much for tournament play. Members aren't professional and generally will probably have more fun by having a CHANCE to compete by not playing a course significantly harder than what they play.

If i ran a club i wouldn't trick the club up so hard, i think people would have more fun. Just my opinion.

 

[DCgolf]

The Augusta system is just for members playing Augusa I think. Whats cool is no trending, no computers, just the scorecard from your last round! Developed by the not so benign dictator, chairman for life, Clifford Roberts who was said to conduct meetings with one simple question: "all those in favor say Aye; all those opposed say I resign!"

 

[WoodbridgeGolf37]

BUT, there MUST be advantages for the USGA rule, there MUST be, otherwise it would be swept away, surely...

Pace of play?

I honestly can't imagine pace getting much worse at most public tracks, but if equitable scoring was eliminated I'm guessing it could potentially bog down play even more (cringing at the thought).

 

[Jay845]

Well

Pace of play?

I honestly can't imagine pace getting much worse at most public tracks, but if equitable scoring was eliminated I'm guessing it could potentially bog down play even more (cringing at the thought).

I think your theory related to pace of play could be a factor, however, in terms of the impact this currently has on pace of play is very questionable in my mind. What percentage of "average joe" golfers actually carry a USGA handicap? Around here, the vast majority of golfers think that there handicap is simply there average score and know nothing about ESC.

 

[mgranato]

Sorry for the harsh language but that's retarded; either always make the course that tough or don't trick it up so much for tournament play. Members aren't professional and generally will probably have more fun by having a CHANCE to compete by not playing a course significantly harder than what they play.

If i ran a club i wouldn't trick the club up so hard, i think people would have more fun. Just my opinion.

It's also worth mentioning that metro Atlanta is infested with woefully designed neighborhood courses who's biggest "design feature" is OB running down both sides of every hole meant to protect picture windows and jungle gyms. Only to be outdone by the latest trend of prohibiting pitching and chipping on/around the practice green.

It takes no "talent" to make a course play unduly hard, just a few cans of paint and an account at Signs-R-Us.

 

[birly-shirly]

Birly, I haven't been a UK resident for 13 years or so. Run it by me again as to how it works with R&A nowadays...

I know there is also a floating SSS which can differ by 2 strokes up or down over the nominal course par. This is easy to do in the UK when handicaps scores are only recorded in tournament play. (Not counting a general adjustment by the handicap secretary)

Hi Olly - I think that, for handicapping purposes, scores worse than double-bogey on individual holes get moderated. So blow-up holes don't inflate a handicap. But that all gets taken care off in a back room somewhere once all cards are in.

 

[drewyallop]

The Augusta system is just for members playing Augusa I think. Whats cool is no trending, no computers, just the scorecard from your last round! Developed by the not so benign dictator, chairman for life, Clifford Roberts who was said to conduct meetings with one simple question: "all those in favor say Aye; all those opposed say I resign!"

I believe in the UK years ago that handicaps were set by the Club Captain after one round with each member. Take it or leave it. No sandbagging, no vanity caps, no BS.

Drew