Clubhead coming into impact - Elipse? Arc? Straight Line?

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cwdlaw223

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What generally happens to the clubhead when coming into the impact area (say 6-8 inches before impact) in terms of the horizontal nature of the movement (i.e., not concerning about the vertical/AoA aspect)? Does the clubhead act like its on an elipse? If so, for how long? An arc? how long? A straight line? how long?

Does this movement change between clubs? For example, a wedge vs. a driver?

Curious. I would say that although my handpath is on a elipse, however, I don't feel like the clubhead itself is on such elipse 6-8 inches before impact.
 
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cwdlaw223

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I was hitting balls with a headcover in front of me beyond the ball trying a inside/square/inside swing (so that the toe doesn't hit the headcovery through impact if severe in to out or out to in) and I hit the ball like crap. I also remember some findings that the clubehad comes through impact more on a straight line than an elipse/arc with the driver.

My question has nothing to do with face closure or attack angle. Just the movement of the club in space horizontally. I can have the clubhead moving in a straight line (or on an arc) with the face opening or closing. Maybe the question is more about the COG traveling horizontally 6-8 inches before impact instead of the clubhead itself. Straight Line? Elipse? Arc? Curious.
 
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dschultz6072

dschultz6072

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Take this for what it's worth, but I like watching good ballstrikers. One thing I noticed when I watch them from down the line is you can really see the clubhead strike the ball. If that means it's my eyes picking up the clubhead traveling in a straighter line and shallower approach for a longer period of time, or it's something else, I don't know. Just something I've always noticed. You can also drive and hold it so it stays straight.
 
Michael Finney

Michael Finney

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here's where it can get a little confusing - at least for me.....

clubhead traces a circle, hands trace a circle from every angle- how big the circles are is where the confusion can set in....
 
mgranato

mgranato

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Let's say it's a straight line. Or it's an ellipse. Or an arc. Now what? What does it matter to the guy holding the grip, grit'n his teeth trying to hold on to a club that's grown to over a 100 lbs (serious question)?

In my simpleton mind, I don't care what the path shape is down there. #1 - I can't feel it in real time. #2 - I can't alter it. #3 - Why would I want to?

That segment strikes me as the purest part of the entire swing. Everything the club is doing down there is because of something it's been programmed to do several feet further back. My influence is over. Now it's a matter of did I pick the right shaft. :)

If it's a straight line, okay. If it's an ellipse, great. If it's an arc, awesome. Whatever it is, I'm just not trying to infringe on it's right to be whatever it's chosen to be, just be the right club (today). :eek:
 
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cwdlaw223

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It matters somewhat because of the type of swing thought I had which was inside/square/inside. I shouldn't have such a thought if the club doesn't really act like that down near impact. This might also gets into the whole hitting down severely without taking a divot. For most people such a statement makes no sense. For a Trackman user it makes sense because how the club travels down the arc to the lowest point matters.

All I care about is impact at the point of maximum compression!!!!
 
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birly-shirly

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there you go cwdlaw - if you can beat down on a ball without taking a humungous divot, then you've just proved to yourself that the clubhead is travelling on an arc.

The arc is going to be wider with a driver - and if I remember right from the release thread - the horizontal radius of the arc with all clubs is longer than you might expect, since the clubhead releasing down and out to the ball is offset by the handle of the club moving up and left.
 
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birly-shirly

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From Michael J's Flightscope Convention thread starter - "The sensitivity of the measurement is extreme, the convention reported that with a 7 iron the Angle of Attack of the club changes 1.25 degrees every millisecond".

That's your arc or ellipse right there. I don't think you can draw a curve on a tilted VSP and not also have horizontal curvature.
 
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cwdlaw223

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birly-shirly said:
there you go cwdlaw - if you can beat down on a ball without taking a humungous divot, then you've just proved to yourself that the clubhead is travelling on an arc.

The arc is going to be wider with a driver - and if I remember right from the release thread - the horizontal radius of the arc with all clubs is longer than you might expect, since the clubhead releasing down and out to the ball is offset by the handle of the club moving up and left.
Click to expand...

I can beat down on the ball in a straight line or an arc. Why does hitting down prove an arc????

How much curvature and when is really the answer to my question. Maybe Nesbit knows what's happening near impact with precision. I just guess after looking at slow motion video. Looks straight to me for 6-12 inches and going either up or down.
 
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bluebird

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One of the things that I learned from Brians New Release is that the answer varies from one extreem of a perfect circle, to the posssibility of a straight path, possibly even a reverse curve. The link between the handpath and the clubhead path is a fixed length but the angle from the arc ( normal being 90 degrees ) is variable. It would be my guess that most clubpaths are some variant arc. It would depend on how far the hands are in front. If the club hits earth 3 inches behind the ball, then rises, in would be an inverse arc. Right.
 
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birly-shirly

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cwdlaw223 said:
I can beat down on the ball in a straight line or an arc. Why does hitting down prove an arc????

How much curvature and when is really the answer to my question. Maybe Nesbit knows what's happening near impact with precision. I just guess after looking at slow motion video. Looks straight to me for 6-12 inches and going either up or down.
Click to expand...

If you hit down in a straight line - you're going to take a divot, no? The only way to avoid burying the club after impact is to pull it into an upwards arc. But you're not in a position to pull it straight upwards - you need to pull it up and towards you.
 
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cwdlaw223

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birly-shirly said:
If you hit down in a straight line - you're going to take a divot, no? The only way to avoid burying the club after impact is to pull it into an upwards arc. But you're not in a position to pull it straight upwards - you need to pull it up and towards you.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily, it could come down and up without having to be on an arc. Look at the slow motion video of Tiger's iron shot. The clubhead goes into the ground and comes back out on an apparent straight line. I wonder if it's an optical illusion.
 
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birly-shirly

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I dunno - I see that as a wide, shallow, slightly buried arc. I think, if you could see the full length of the club, you'd "see" more shaft rotation. That shaft is going to flex on impact and recover (relative to ball compression and rebound) quite slowly. That could mask the amount of shaft rotation (and, by implication arc) that you're seeing.

Anyway - I thought you were interested in the "horizontal" movement of the clubhead. That clubhead is clearly moving down and then up again. When that happens on an inclined plane - I'm sure that from a bird's eye view you'd see it as an arc - especially if Tiger really has zeroed out his path.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
A. The center of curvature is moving all over the place in a decent golf swing.

B. There are ways to flatten out the hula-hoop (I've been explaining it for a long time)

C. After the club hits the ball (or the ground, or both), the club does vastly different things than it would have.
 
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