Couple Questions i need clarification on...(w/Manzella Video Answer)

[Jim Kobylinski]

1) Why is angled hinge swinging incompatable?

2) How can you hook it off the earth with the above question?

3) If one ball position and varying the width of your stance does not work because clubs are all different lengths, how was Jack Nicklaus so successful?

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Thanks

 

[birdie_man]

Word to your mother.

 

[birdie_man]

I prefer a constant off the heel ball position greatly....(with my main pattern)...

I swing with an Angled Hinge (some of the time....for certain shots).....and I don't know that it's enough Hitting (as I know it) that I'd call it Hitting.....maybe adding some Thrust tho (muscular)....not sure really....maybe w/o knowing it.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Funny how no one will answer these

 

[Jared Willerson]

Funny how no one will answer these

'Cause I don't have a clue. I'm just interested in doing what is right for me first, then I'll learn all that other stuff.

 

[shootin4par]

Funny how no one will answer these

probably a little on the advanced side for most on here
with my limited knowledge, angled hinging and swinging dont seem like good friends because I would tend to think the club head would want to release NATURALLY past angled and also go into finish swivel so in order to have angled hinge you would have to hold off the release and swivel adn that is not a pure swinging motion

how would you hook with angled hinge swinging, does not seem to make much sense to me either unless you come into impact with a closed clubface and it is already at the angled hinge finish position.

on number three, does the EXACT same ball position relative to the left foot or left shoulder

so there are my guesses, feel free to correct

and to add, holding off the release may tend to cause a flip and hook

 

[Jared Willerson]

I'll try anyway:

1) Angled hinging in my view is incompatible because it disrupts the "rhythm" of a swinger.

2) You hook off the earth because the opportunity for leakage presents itself in mixing components that do not match up thus the infamous "leakage hook".

3) Having a lot of natural talent helps a whole bunch.

 

[birdie_man]

How to hook it off the planet w/ Angled Hinge:

Swing really inside out....

So much so that the face cannot possibly be open enough to be a little open to the plane line. (which is what you need at Impact)

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

The answer is that all are very viable but certain videos on certain sites say otherwise.

Talk to Jack N about Angled Hinge Swinger or maybe "old duval" who shot 59 on tour and was the first person to trump tiger @ #1, or maybe Freddy Couples.

Ya, I'd like to see a hook from a LAYING BACK CLUBFACE. Even if you swung RIDICULOUSLY inside/out and angled hinge it wouldn't hook off the planet that's for sure.

 

[Jared Willerson]

The answer is that all are very viable but certain videos on certain sites say otherwise.

Talk to Jack N about Angled Hinge Swinger or maybe "old duval" who shot 59 on tour and was the first person to trump tiger @ #1, or maybe Freddy Couples.

Ya, I'd like to see a hook from a LAYING BACK CLUBFACE. Even if you swung RIDICULOUSLY inside/out and angled hinge it wouldn't hook off the planet that's for sure.

I agree, just took a shot at answering to appease, what I wrote is all I could come up with, like I said earlier, I really don't have a clue, but lately, I've been really thrown off with the hidden meaning and baiting in threads. I'm just trying to figure out how to best apply what Brian has taught me.

 

[tourdeep]

1) Why is angled hinge swinging incompatable?

2) How can you hook it off the earth with the above question?

3) If one ball position and varying the width of your stance does not work because clubs are all different lengths, how was Jack Nicklaus so successful?

-----

Thanks

1. Since the swinger relies on centripetal/fugal force, allowing the hinge action to respond to this move would have a horizontal hinge. A disruption of this would be angle hinging as an alternative.

Now, what may be lost in this is the swivel and its role to keep the clubface working da plane, boss angle or hh...

As far as being incompatible, nothing in the golf swing is incompatible unless one thinks it is. It may be just a lesser alternative.

2.
Here's one way. close the stance and I mean really close it, close the face as needed, and swing in to out.

add a little flip...

keep the face shut, or much , much less open (shut), from takeaway to finish...

leaky faucet

3.
cuz Jack can think it his way...

did he adjust the stance similar to what Hogan does? more open with shorter club with ball postion remaining constant?


some ramblings...

 

[tourdeep]

I prefer a constant off the heel ball position greatly....(with my main pattern)...

I swing with an Angled Hinge (some of the time....for certain shots).....and I don't know that it's enough Hitting (as I know it) that I'd call it Hitting.....maybe adding some Thrust tho (muscular)....not sure really....maybe w/o knowing it.

maybe you're a switter, perhaps the 4 barrel dude?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

As far as being incompatible, nothing in the golf swing is incompatible unless one thinks it is. It may be just a lesser alternative.

Tell that to those on tour who are successful with it.

Here's one way. close the stance and I mean really close it, close the face as needed, and swing in to out

add a little flip...

keep the face shut, or much , much less open (shut), from takeaway to finish...

Well a flip isn't an angled hinge and your above procedure seems faaaaaaaaaar from orthodox. Almost like you had to "make it happen" not that it "does happen."

cuz Jack can think it his way...

did he adjust the stance similar to what Hogan does? more open with shorter club with ball postion remaining constant?


some ramblings...

Nope he had a constant ball position and varied the width of his stance which is a viable OPTION.

 

[matt]

1. It's not incompatible - just not recommended. Hinge action alone doesn't differentiate hitter and swinger (as they like to say), which means that both can use either one interchangeably. However, right arm thrust will tend to limit the amount of clubface closing (resulting in an angled hinge) while a strict dragging promotes CF closing the face (horizonal hinge). You can switch them up but you're going to have to either add extra roll (horizontal hinge hitting) or fight/hold off CF (angled hinge swinging).

As a sidenote, it's not hard to hit an angled hinge fade with a closed face at the top. You just pivot hard and 'hang on.' Look at Duval - grip cranked way over (10-2-D) and he just held the face 'looking at the ball' the whole swing.

2. Swingers trying to overcome CF clubface closing will often miss with hooks; I've done it plenty myself. You try to hold it off and sometimes it'll just throw itself closed, especially if you slow down your pivot thrust. Another way to hook it is to shift your plane line to the right (coming down 'underplane'). Most of the time when you do this, regardless of the clubface, you're going to have a very difficult time keeping the face from flying shut. I've heard this called a "deflection hook" before - and you can't aim far enough right at address or manipulate the face enough to keep the ball even relatively straight.

3. I'm no expert in this department. But when you say "one ball position", what do you reference it against? His feet? His shoulders? It makes a huge difference. You can 'vary the width of your stance' and keep the ball in the same place (relative to low point) or you can vary the width and relocate the ball relative to low point.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

1. It's not incompatible - just not recommended. Hinge action alone doesn't differentiate hitter and swinger (as they like to say), which means that both can use either one interchangeably. However, right arm thrust will tend to limit the amount of clubface closing (resulting in an angled hinge) while a strict dragging promotes CF closing the face (horizonal hinge). You can switch them up but you're going to have to either add extra roll (horizontal hinge hitting) or fight/hold off CF (angled hinge swinging).

As a sidenote, it's not hard to hit an angled hinge fade with a closed face at the top. You just pivot hard and 'hang on.' Look at Duval - grip cranked way over (10-2-D) and he just held the face 'looking at the ball' the whole swing.

2. Swingers trying to overcome CF clubface closing will often miss with hooks; I've done it plenty myself. You try to hold it off and sometimes it'll just throw itself closed, especially if you slow down your pivot thrust. Another way to hook it is to shift your plane line to the right (coming down 'underplane'). Most of the time when you do this, regardless of the clubface, you're going to have a very difficult time keeping the face from flying shut. I've heard this called a "deflection hook" before - and you can't aim far enough right at address or manipulate the face enough to keep the ball even relatively straight.

3. I'm no expert in this department. But when you say "one ball position", what do you reference it against? His feet? His shoulders? It makes a huge difference. You can 'vary the width of your stance' and keep the ball in the same place (relative to low point) or you can vary the width and relocate the ball relative to low point.

Thanks for the answers matt, all very correct. And you are right, when done "incorrectly" angled hinge swinging will result in hooks. However so will horizontal hinging too.

The point is that it can be done and be done well. However if you were to do it, i would suggest a 10-2-D grip as it is easier to resist the roll.

I meant one ball position in relation to the left heel and/or low point. then vary your stance width, the same amount of "experiementation" it takes with stand width adjustments would be needed with multiple ball positions.

Please note that i don't "advocate a 1 ball position for everyone" but for some it works and it is a REAL OPTION.

Nice to see people who THINK on this site and not just listen to propaganda.

 

[shootin4par]

tourdeeps answer to #1 is different wording but pretty much what I meant in my answer. So rather then say no, someone uses it, please explain why you disagree. when I think of PURE swinging I think of pretty soft arms that woudl help the club face go past angled, who are PURE swingers who dont manipulate and stop at angled and what is it about their pattern that enables their club face to only rotate to angled?
still havent answered the response to number three

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

tourdeeps answer to #1 is different wording but pretty much what I meant in my answer. So rather then say no, someone uses it, please explain why you disagree. when I think of PURE swinging I think of pretty soft arms that woudl help the club face go past angled, who are PURE swingers who dont manipulate and stop at angled and what is it about their pattern that enables their club face to only rotate to angled?
still havent answered the response to number three

Freddie is a pure swinger who angle hinges. Also, some people just don't always have the ability or talent to really let CF fully close the face.

remember, angled hinging isn't just 45* to the plane line it is ANYWHERE in between full roll and vertical.

 

[Brian Manzella]

A little video.

[media]http://homepage.mac.com/brianmanzella/.Movies/7239a.flv[/media]

 

[birdie_man]

The answer is that all are very viable but certain videos on certain sites say otherwise.

Talk to Jack N about Angled Hinge Swinger or maybe "old duval" who shot 59 on tour and was the first person to trump tiger @ #1, or maybe Freddy Couples.

Word man.

Ya, I'd like to see a hook from a LAYING BACK CLUBFACE. Even if you swung RIDICULOUSLY inside/out and angled hinge it wouldn't hook off the planet that's for sure.

Ya....I'm not as good as some at these fine details....some of the Impact dynamics etc....

But I dunno man....what I had in my head was that with certain patterns, I used to hook like crazy (off the planet) when trying for an Angled Hinge....maybe the key word is 'trying.'

Not sure now.

I mean......just cause the face is closing some through Impact doesn't mean it's Horizontal tho....does it??? (honestly am not sure now)

You say:

...remember, angled hinging isn't just 45* to the plane line it is ANYWHERE in between full roll and vertical.

 

[birdie_man]

O sweet more responses above....this window was open on my computer for a while...

...

BTW Jim...

While I talk to Jack about his Swinging with an Angled Hinge I'll ask him about his ball position too....