David TOMS' BACKSWING AND TRANSITION
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Brian Manzella
Administrator
Talent.
In 1997, in Dallas, I spent 3 whole days working with David.
He had developed a very flat, in THEN up (but not much up) backswing.
I convinced him to take it back "up the wall," ...he STILL does.
In 1997, in Dallas, I spent 3 whole days working with David.
He had developed a very flat, in THEN up (but not much up) backswing.
I convinced him to take it back "up the wall," ...he STILL does.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
that links you to Davis Love III
He looks above plane going back. At the top the left arm is above the shoulder plane and the right elbow is much above the clubshaft plane. He does make a good move to get the right elbow back on the clubshaft plane starting down, but it just seems like an extra motion to drop down that much from outside the plane. I would think it would be simpler to keep the club, arms, right elbow and forearm more on the correct planes throughout the swing. What the pictures don't convey is the great rhythm and athleticism Toms has. He really has a nice freeflowing swing and keeps everything in sequence when playing well.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
quote:Originally posted by efnef
Look on the right side bar on the DLIII link. You will see the link to David Toms.
my bad[:I]
Mclare:
I understand your point to be that Toms deviates from the consensus "ideal" takeaway, complicating the move. But his takeaway is clearly ideal, and uncomplicated, for him with 10 wins including a major; and brings up the question of what really matters in getting the club back and to impact--and how the individual swing relates to individual anatomy. He looks to me to stand, for instance, much more upright than most other Tour pros. Apparently, stance and takeaway are what are most comfortable and efficient for him.
Any inside information Brian as to what Toms achieves with stance and takeaway?
I understand your point to be that Toms deviates from the consensus "ideal" takeaway, complicating the move. But his takeaway is clearly ideal, and uncomplicated, for him with 10 wins including a major; and brings up the question of what really matters in getting the club back and to impact--and how the individual swing relates to individual anatomy. He looks to me to stand, for instance, much more upright than most other Tour pros. Apparently, stance and takeaway are what are most comfortable and efficient for him.
Any inside information Brian as to what Toms achieves with stance and takeaway?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Ok folks...
When I spent those three days with David in early 1997 in Dallas, his swing had gotten flat and he was swinging back to the ball too inside-out and he was not 'un-wound' enough at impact.
The cure was BRIAN MANZELLA's UP THE WALL-DOWN THE WALL-LEFT OF THE WALL(LIFT-DROP-ROTATE) SWING FEEL/THOUGHT/VISUALIZATION REMEDY.
The 'wall' is a VERTICAL wall just outside the ball parallel to the target line.
David was----in 'wall speak'----IN FROM THE WALL(BACKSWING)-TOWARD THE WALL(DOWNSWING TO THE BALL)-UP THE WALL(PAST THE BALL)...
I GAVE HIM THE OPPOSITE... 'remedy' I developed trying to simulate FRED COUPLES' swing...it was a SLIGHT exaggeration for effect. I would have 'normalized' his backswing over time, but he (and RA) stuck with it and now it as part of the package.
There are dozens of reasons why it works for David and for others that I have taught the same thing to.
One of which is you can DROP IT on plane. You can't do that from a flat backswing or even as much from a noraml one...
The other benifits....I'll leave it for ya'll to figure out...
When I spent those three days with David in early 1997 in Dallas, his swing had gotten flat and he was swinging back to the ball too inside-out and he was not 'un-wound' enough at impact.
The cure was BRIAN MANZELLA's UP THE WALL-DOWN THE WALL-LEFT OF THE WALL(LIFT-DROP-ROTATE) SWING FEEL/THOUGHT/VISUALIZATION REMEDY.
The 'wall' is a VERTICAL wall just outside the ball parallel to the target line.
David was----in 'wall speak'----IN FROM THE WALL(BACKSWING)-TOWARD THE WALL(DOWNSWING TO THE BALL)-UP THE WALL(PAST THE BALL)...
I GAVE HIM THE OPPOSITE... 'remedy' I developed trying to simulate FRED COUPLES' swing...it was a SLIGHT exaggeration for effect. I would have 'normalized' his backswing over time, but he (and RA) stuck with it and now it as part of the package.
There are dozens of reasons why it works for David and for others that I have taught the same thing to.
One of which is you can DROP IT on plane. You can't do that from a flat backswing or even as much from a noraml one...
The other benifits....I'll leave it for ya'll to figure out...
FanofHogan
New
quote:Originally posted by brianman
Ok folks...
When I spent those three days with David in early 1997 in Dallas, his swing had gotten flat and he was swinging back to the ball too inside-out and he was not 'un-wound' enough at impact.
The cure was BRIAN MANZELLA's UP THE WALL-DOWN THE WALL-LEFT OF THE WALL(LIFT-DROP-ROTATE) SWING FEEL/THOUGHT/VISUALIZATION REMEDY.
The 'wall' is a VERTICAL wall just outside the ball parallel to the target line.
David was----in 'wall speak'----IN FROM THE WALL(BACKSWING)-TOWARD THE WALL(DOWNSWING TO THE BALL)-UP THE WALL(PAST THE BALL)...
I GAVE HIM THE OPPOSITE... 'remedy' I developed trying to simulate FRED COUPLES' swing...it was a SLIGHT exaggeration for effect. I would have 'normalized' his backswing over time, but he (and RA) stuck with it and now it as part of the package.
There are dozens of reasons why it works for David and for others that I have taught the same thing to.
One of which is you can DROP IT on plane. You can't do that from a flat backswing or even as much from a noraml one...
The other benifits....I'll leave it for ya'll to figure out...
So, you're saying in a sense that you encouraged him to keep the cluhead outside his hands on the takeaway, swing the club more upright, then shallow it out on the downswing? Just not to the extreme of Furyk.
EdStraker
New
I don't know what Nobilo said last night on TGC, but last week, he said David Tom's swing was looking good and that his grip was weaker than it used to be.
The only question mark in Nobilo's mind was how Tom's wrist would hold up hitting out of U.S. Open rough. If the wrist doesn't bother David Toms during the upcoming U.S. Open, he considers him to be one of the favorites.
The only question mark in Nobilo's mind was how Tom's wrist would hold up hitting out of U.S. Open rough. If the wrist doesn't bother David Toms during the upcoming U.S. Open, he considers him to be one of the favorites.
If memory serves me well (and it doesn't always), he compared Toms' swing to his swing circa his PGA Championship. Like you said, weaker grip, and also more upright plane. I think he voiced concern that these were compensations (??!!) and could lead to potential back/neck problems. I was only half listening while I was cleaning my clubs. That kind of got my attention, because Toms' swing seems very simple, with few, if any compensating moves to my eye.
Anyone?
Anyone?
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