David Toms' Sept. Golf Digest Article

[Playa_Brian]

quote:Originally posted by 6bee1dee
I see you do notice that TGM is superior.

I like some of the information from the instructors of TGM.

quote: Helping uneducated golfers is a noble thing. Far better than ridicule.

Ridicule is what is on this forum too often

quote:TGM language is English that can be translated into any world language. The problem is not the with the language or terms, but with the reader of the book who gives up. I didn't have an easy time with it but saw the value to stick with it and seek some help.

But this is what a cult would say...and that is why it is NOT for the masses.

quote:Others call us cults, nazis, etc, my friends call me good. I guess we are a threat to many who see their faults through us.

Same thought. A cult would say the same things that you just wrote here.

 

[Playa_Brian]

quote:Originally posted by brianman


You Say: "TGM followers are focused on a leader to whom members seem to display unquestioning commitment."

I say: "You must be kidding, right? TGM has many factions and if the one leader you are refering to is me, than your mere presence—along with that of many other detractors who attempt to torment me on my own site, but are left to freely make statements like you often do—proves you comment wrong when it comes to me. If you want real zealots, talk to a Leadbetter disciple.

Hi Brian,
No, I wasn't referring to you.

 

[Biffer]

IMO, Homer Kelley was a genius who wrote a great manual about the golf swing. I would bet that if you took a lesson from Homer or one of the AI's you would have very little trouble understanding how to perform a swing. Learning from the book, or any swing instruction book, is somtimes a bit more perplexing because you must be able to decipher the exact meaning of what has been written, no chance to ask questions to get clarification and no one present to make sure you comprehend. I assume that Homer wrote his book in the manner he did because he thought that it would be a more exact way of getting his meaning across. To him it was crystal clear. Because of the way Homer chose to format his book, the average person will not take the necessary time to study it's contents. That's why we need guys like Brian, who have taken the time to learn all of the facets of TGM. Hopefully, someday, someone will write a book just for the masses, explaining TGM in a form that they will readily accept.

 

[DDL]

We Are Borg!!!!!

To me, learning to swing a golf club from TGm is like learning a foreign language by using a dictionary and a textbook on the rules of grammar. Sure, you may be able to read and write the foreign lingo, but your conversation skills will be severely deficient. One can learn a lot about the golf swing from TGM, but not necessarily swing a club well. That is where the 'native' speakers, also known as AIs come in.

 

[denny.]

quote:Originally posted by DDL

We Are Borg!!!!!

To me, learning to swing a golf club from TGm is like learning a foreign language by using a dictionary and a textbook on the rules of grammar. Sure, you may be able to read and write the foreign lingo, but your conversation skills will be severely deficient. One can learn a lot about the golf swing from TGM, but not necessarily swing a club well. That is where the 'native' speakers, also known as AIs come in.

THat's bunk----- It's all in the book. He gives you options. Keep digging.

 

[DDL]

quote:Originally posted by denny.

quote:Originally posted by DDL

We Are Borg!!!!!

To me, learning to swing a golf club from TGm is like learning a foreign language by using a dictionary and a textbook on the rules of grammar. Sure, you may be able to read and write the foreign lingo, but your conversation skills will be severely deficient. One can learn a lot about the golf swing from TGM, but not necessarily swing a club well. That is where the 'native' speakers, also known as AIs come in.

THat's bunk----- It's all in the book. He gives you options. Keep digging.

Read what I wrote. What I wrote seems to have completely sailed over your head. I DID imply, loud and clear, too figuratively it appears, that the knowledge, or options as you call it, were all there in the book. Are you telling me one can learn to swing the golf club competently without instruction, and only from the book? Well, you are delusional of it if you think so. Can you cite exaples of low handicappers who never took a lesson and only learned from the book?

 

[Mathew]

I think people think that TGM is more complicated than it actually is. It is easily readable but doesn't spell everything out so you have to do a bit of study to understand....

 

[6bee1dee]

quote:Originally posted by Playa_Brian

quote:Originally posted by 6bee1dee
I see you do notice that TGM is superior.

I like some of the information from the instructors of TGM.

quote: Helping uneducated golfers is a noble thing. Far better than ridicule.

Ridicule is what is on this forum too often

quote:TGM language is English that can be translated into any world language. The problem is not the with the language or terms, but with the reader of the book who gives up. I didn't have an easy time with it but saw the value to stick with it and seek some help.

But this is what a cult would say...and that is why it is NOT for the masses.

quote:Others call us cults, nazis, etc, my friends call me good. I guess we are a threat to many who see their faults through us.

Same thought. A cult would say the same things that you just wrote here.

It is safe to say any group of people can be called a cult, the US Senate, the Marines, 4-H clubs, college fraternities, a corporation, even. The label is applied by the speaker or writer- fairly and unfairly depending on the situation. My only objective is to play better golf- which I do solely because I learned a few things about TGM. I participate on a few forums because, one, a enjoy internet forums and two, I think I can help people with their questions in some areas. If this creates a cult in your mind, so be it. I’m sure there is a cult you belong to only your definition.

 

[6bee1dee]

Rchang72- the way the book is written is its beauty- the language may be Homer’s greatest achievement

Birdie- What I like about TGM is if you only follow the three imperatives and the three Essentials, you are better than most golfers and most golf schools.

Biffer- well put- great post.

DDL- I agree that the book is tough at first but it is in English. AIs are very important. I needed one but I learned from another ‘AI’ of sorts- the forums- “substutitisAI” Over the years, the threads and member became my AI on the net. I am thankful for their enthusiasm.
But... any college course text book and almost any subject is just as tough a read as Homer’s book and in most cases, tougher. Rewards come to those that perceiver.
Homer says that all movements are similar to a golf swing- if it doesn’t feel or look like a golf swing - its wrong. This clarified to me that nothing was going to appear weird like some systems and in exploring the book, my efforts will indeed be inside a golf swing.

Denny- Keep digging- it is better than a gold mine.


Matthew- We live in a world of “instant gratification.” The book does scare about folks like that. They need the golf magazines like a junkie needs a fix. But if the pga did embrace TGM- very simply instruction would be the norm.

 

[DDL]

6B:

You are absolutely correct that the forums act like surrogate AIs. There are many people who have reported on these forums, that they did not correctly nor fully understanding the book, (one, I recall, even after many years of study and research), until they attended one of Yoda's seminars, or took a lesson from Brian or Chuck. Lots of AHAs. On top of that, they also received complementary, first class hands on golf swing instruction.

 

[6bee1dee]

It is true that many of us have posted on these forums with less than accurate information when we first started. I have always found writing a get way to learn though. I’m am glad to be able to have a long list great posters (some now are friends) like Phillygolf (back posting, Edge, Denny, Mike O, Sonny, and young Matt, all from the for the early days that corrected me and others with the right information. (I am sorry, I know I left off a lot of great guys.)

These forums thanks to Brian, and Chuck produced not only great information but great members. I am proud to be a part of the learning processes.

I am appreciative that these very forums help bring Yoda out of hiding. There is nothing like studying with him. Anyone learning from a AI is fantastic. Personally I didn’t want to learn or buy CDs from an AI that didn’t use TGM terminology. I needed to know and see what extensor action, a cross line delivery path or a left hand flying wedge looked like. This way I not only learned a few nice swing mechanics but knew what the TGM reference was. That was important to me but not for everyone.

Bottom line- TGM flourished with the internet and these forums. And so did we.

 

[efnef]

Gotta agree with Mike about the terminology. I was put off by it at first, too, but as an RN, I use medical terminology every day. It is a precise, concise, universally understood (in the Healthcare field) means of communicating. And so it is for the language of TGM once you learn it (I'm admittedly lazy on this count, but the incubator is slowly doing it's job).