Debate: draw or fade into dogleg?
- Thread starter tongzilla
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Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Depends on where the trouble is? And what your miss is when you shape it? Does it over curve or stay straight? Never let a straight ball penalize you. You would have to take every hole as a separate example.
I draw the ball regardless of the doglegs. My "fade" turns into a slice under pressure. My draw is still a draw under pressure. Play the shot you can execute under pressure and suck it up if you have a longer shot into the hole instead of trying to go with the dogleg (unless the dogleg suits your shot pattern). All about execution. I think the technical answer is go with the dogleg, however, if you can't execute the greatest plans on paper they're generally worthless IMO.
dschultz6072
New
Billy Casper said you have to play the dogleg. When he got older and he wasn't able to pound it out there he realized it wasn't so bad not being able to cut the corner.
Working the ball
Everything being equal - the fade is the shot - creates a shorter shot for your next shot.
However, if you are going to factor in variables - which you would need to do and as others have noted here - then you need to clarify the situation more precisely - does being closer benefit you?, which way does the fairway slope?, where is the trouble?, what are your misses? What shots are you capable of playing?, Is the ball going to roll alot or just hit and stop? We could add another 50 items - however you wouldn't be done. Then you need to weigh them according to their importance/relevance in order to come up with the best play for you.
Everything being equal - the fade is the shot - creates a shorter shot for your next shot.
However, if you are going to factor in variables - which you would need to do and as others have noted here - then you need to clarify the situation more precisely - does being closer benefit you?, which way does the fairway slope?, where is the trouble?, what are your misses? What shots are you capable of playing?, Is the ball going to roll alot or just hit and stop? We could add another 50 items - however you wouldn't be done. Then you need to weigh them according to their importance/relevance in order to come up with the best play for you.
KGlennCole
New
faux_maestro
New
Did you intend to come off like a douchebag with this comment?
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magicmarker
New
I have my answer but would like to hear you guys first
What's your answer/reasoning?
tongzilla
New
So with my example (dogleg right 45 deg and fairway starts to turn at around 230 yards and you can drive it 280 yards), if you play the perfect fade tracing the fairway, your effective landing space is the width of the fairwawy. Whereas if you play the opposite draw shot, you have a much wider landing area because you can use the length of the fairway to land the ball.
dschultz6072
New
That doesn't sound completely accurate but if it's an easier shot for you to pull off, then sure. I would think you have a much easier chance of running out of fairway with a draw than a cut in that situation. I always seem to.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
So you're saying work it away from the dog leg?
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
go with your easiest produced shot shape when it comes to doglegs. If it's a fade hole and you just aren't that good a of a fader, hit it at the trees and hit a small draw or just take less club and don't try to cut off the dogleg.
I can't count the # of times where i tried to get too fancy with doglegs and scored poorly or struggled to make par versus just playing the hhole as designed and had much better results. With that in mind i take into account how well i'm driving the ball that day along with what shot it requires to cut it off and if the reward (if i do it right) is worth it. Simple risk/reward imo.
I can't count the # of times where i tried to get too fancy with doglegs and scored poorly or struggled to make par versus just playing the hhole as designed and had much better results. With that in mind i take into account how well i'm driving the ball that day along with what shot it requires to cut it off and if the reward (if i do it right) is worth it. Simple risk/reward imo.
tongzilla
New
ok there are a lot of good responses here...the main point I'm trying to make with this thread is- I don't think it's always better to go with the dogleg (which is the conventional wisdom), because there are some situations that provide a wider landing area if you go the opposite way. Of course, if you're more comfortable hitting one shape over another, that fact will take precedence in your decision making process.
BrendanC
New
As far as I am aware, most top players stick with their shot shape and switch to a shorter club to manage these situations.
In practice, there is no doubt a scientifically correct and unique 'answer' to this question for each golfer on each hole - based on risk, reward and the range of possible outcomes that commitment to any given 'plan' before the shot has been struck.
Factors include:
: How are you hitting it? What % chance do you have of pulling off either a fade or draw and landing it in the fairway?
: What are the likely results in the event you mishit the ball? What % chance do you have of getting a "playable miss" from the shot patterns available to you? Does your draw introduce a nasty low pull hook possibility, but your fade only mean you are likely to get a shortish slice if mishit?
: What shape is the pig's back - with roll in mind, does the slope of the fairway favour either shot shape?
: Where is the flag? Is it better to be on the "correct" side of the fairway and in the rough than the wrong side and on the fairway?
: How do your chances of making birdie/par/bogey change depend on the shot you hit?
: What way is the wind blowing?
: Do you wish to show off, or score!?
In practice, there is no doubt a scientifically correct and unique 'answer' to this question for each golfer on each hole - based on risk, reward and the range of possible outcomes that commitment to any given 'plan' before the shot has been struck.
Factors include:
: How are you hitting it? What % chance do you have of pulling off either a fade or draw and landing it in the fairway?
: What are the likely results in the event you mishit the ball? What % chance do you have of getting a "playable miss" from the shot patterns available to you? Does your draw introduce a nasty low pull hook possibility, but your fade only mean you are likely to get a shortish slice if mishit?
: What shape is the pig's back - with roll in mind, does the slope of the fairway favour either shot shape?
: Where is the flag? Is it better to be on the "correct" side of the fairway and in the rough than the wrong side and on the fairway?
: How do your chances of making birdie/par/bogey change depend on the shot you hit?
: What way is the wind blowing?
: Do you wish to show off, or score!?
softconsult
New
And.... We should remember that it depends on your skills and the tees you are playing. I am 67 and play in my aforementioned Seniors League at 24 different courses in hilly NE Tennessee. We have our share dogleg holes where the issue really becomes what do you need to hit to not stymie yourself short right and blocked and also avoid hitting it through the fairway to the opposite tree line. 1 st Flight plays the White tees. I very often hit three wood, or 3 hybrid straight at the center of the fairway leaving sub 150 shot in. I just think the percentages for cutting the corner are not very good for us average players.
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