Defying the odds: Am I a schizo?

[dominicscaife]

you have to learn that hitting it perfect isn't good golf...it is a rarity that even pros don't have everyday

Great quote, and it's so true, and yet so frustrating. A game of managing our imperfections. Which is why I think many draw a parallel between golf and life.

Dashfan - I think 'deviation' is the word your looking for

 

[niblick1]

Sounds like you still don't know what causes the ball to fly the way it does.

Learn that. The rest just facilitates it.

It's amazing how much not knowing true ball flight rules holds people back. When I learned those here, I got much better at diagnosing my problems immediately.

My biggest problem was I didn't understand until recently the real impact of low point and shaft lean on dee plane. That was holding me back. Learning about it is like discovering gold.

My theory on those with wild swings in scores (I've been in this camp for the last year, ever since ditching my crappy old "bunt it around the course and shoot 76-81 almost every time swing" and trying to get better) - 1) you don't learn to adjust on the course to the game you have that day (something I actually do fairly well, almost always scoring better on back 9 than front 9) and you don't have a great wedge/chipping game to help you make up for wilder ballstriking days (something I really don't have yet and need to spend some serious time on), and 2) a fundamental, undiagnosed swing issue (for me this has been hitting pulls/pull hooks at inopportune times - I think my diagnosis of cause of this was entirely wrong and until a week ago couldn't eliminate this recurring problem, I think I finally figured out this issue last week).

 

[Jared Willerson]

What are some ball flight laws in relation to the D plane?

Why does a ball go dead left? Right? Slight Draw? Slight Fade?

Is there a nice post out there that describes the above?

 

[niblick1]

What are some ball flight laws in relation to the D plane?

Why does a ball go dead left? Right? Slight Draw? Slight Fade?

Is there a nice post out there that describes the above?

To be more precise, the ball flight rules are the ball flight rules. There are some old posts of Brian explaining his view, Ben Doyle's, and other views. I can try to dig them up for you from the archives, GLcoach, and will do that tonight when I get a minute.

Maybe a more precise way to talk about my takeaway points on the D-Plane, which is something I have only a rough understanding of at this point, is not that that the shaft lean changes ball flight rules but that the amount of impacts ability to create certain ball flights because of path, clubface, and low point issues. As a result, I have been trying to use less lean, and make sure I am getting closer to my swing low point.

Here are the basic "rules," you've probably seen them before:

http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/golfing-discussions/8503-wanna-fade-2.html#post98290

 

[birdie_man]

My fourball partner and I were playing and he finally had enough...his quote...."you are as good as anybody (in our club) except for between the ears you have to learn that hitting it perfect isn't good golf...it is a rarity that even pros don't have everyday, quit being too hard on yourself and just play"

I have thought a lot about what he said this week. I just don't know how to go about correcting some things.

It's true. Ideally you need to keep thinking strategy on the course......and then hit it with whatever habits you have built in already.

Tough to do though........it's always so tempting to start tinkering.

I see no reason why small adjustments can't be done at times................but getting into experimental mode is very often right around the corner.

I am a Doctorate Experimenter Of Golf, Level 1A Certification.

A lot of times I finish a round and I don't even know what the heck I shot. I have faith I will get it though.

 

[dsmith2296]

Alas, a nice middle of the road 83- within my standard deviation.

But with 6 three-putts, -I'm still a mental case!

Meanwhile, striking the ball really well swinging with a shoulder turn that keeps my left arm higher than my right and tucking right elbow in at the top.

Can't believe my "head case" thread hit its third page. I'm so proud.

 

[niblick1]

glcoach-

Here's my overlay of d-plane on ball flight rules. I only understand a portion of what this is based on so this is no doubt a really gross generalization.

The abcde rules of brian ball flight rules I linked to above in this thread are a linear representation of the simplified rules.

What actually happens is that there are two factors, clubpath and clubface. The amount of out or in and up and down at separation forms one line in 3-D space. At the same time, the clubface direction at separation forms another line. If you connect the space between these diverging lines you get a plane with path line forming one boundary of a plane wedge and face direction forming the other edge of the plane. The plane in space looks like a piece of pizza. The ball travels 70 percent towards the clubpath boundary of the pizza slice and curves back towards face angle line. The pizza slice can vary in size and amount of tilt. Sitting on its edge would represent a straight shot.

An impact condition without a severe angled path (up and down or left and right) and with a face not terribly open or closed reduces the size of the D-Plane pizza slice and means you hit a straighter shot. If you use a lot of lean this necessitates other compensating adjustments that increases the size of the D-Plane pizza slice, so while you reduced loft and hit your 7-iron like a 5-iron, you have probably increased the size of the pizza slice and now are moving the ball more left and right. Using this analysis, a very underplane driver hit upward on an inside-out path with a low lofted face looking left and without much effective loft produces a right edge boundary out to the right, with the pizza wedge tilted down to left connecting to face line, and you get a low, snapping duck hook.

I'm sure others can elaborate and explain better than me and correct my many errors, but what you figure out is that controlling low-point without a lot of shaft lean, and without overdoing the in or out (or up or down) of path makes tighter shot dispersion possible. Mid-sole swinging pitch is easier to control than high shaft-lean front edge divot pitch.

That's my 3rd grade level understanding.

 

[pecky987]

glcoach-

Here's my overlay of d-plane on ball flight rules. I only understand a portion of what this is based on so this is no doubt a really gross generalization.

The abcde rules of brian ball flight rules I linked to above in this thread are a linear representation of the simplified rules.

What actually happens is that there are two factors, clubpath and clubface. The amount of out or in and up and down at separation forms one line in 3-D space. At the same time, the clubface direction at separation forms another line. If you connect the space between these diverging lines you get a plane with path line forming one boundary of a plane wedge and face direction forming the other edge of the plane. The plane in space looks like a piece of pizza. The ball travels 70 percent towards the clubpath boundary of the pizza slice and curves back towards face angle line. The pizza slice can vary in size and amount of tilt. Sitting on its edge would represent a straight shot.

An impact condition without a severe angled path (up and down or left and right) and with a face not terribly open or closed reduces the size of the D-Plane pizza slice and means you hit a straighter shot. If you use a lot of lean this necessitates other compensating adjustments that increases the size of the D-Plane pizza slice, so while you reduced loft and hit your 7-iron like a 5-iron, you have probably increased the size of the pizza slice and now are moving the ball more left and right. Using this analysis, a very underplane driver hit upward on an inside-out path with a low lofted face looking left and without much effective loft produces a right edge boundary out to the right, with the pizza wedge tilted down to left connecting to face line, and you get a low, snapping duck hook.

I'm sure others can elaborate and explain better than me and correct my many errors, but what you figure out is that controlling low-point without a lot of shaft lean, and without overdoing the in or out (or up or down) of path makes tighter shot dispersion possible. Mid-sole swinging pitch is easier to control than high shaft-lean front edge divot pitch.

That's my 3rd grade level understanding.

i think thats a great way to describe it and you did it really well

 

[puttmad]

The ball travels 70 percent towards the clubpath boundary of the pizza slice and curves back towards face angle line.

niblick,
I think you have this the wrong way round...

Ball starts 70-80% in favour of the club FACE.......

(Reverse below for a fade)...

 

[niblick1]

niblick,
I think you have this the wrong way round...

Ball starts 70-80% in favour of the club FACE.......

(Reverse below for a fade)...

I wouldn't be shocked to hear it started 70 percent towards face instead of path line, I could have misunderstood that part as I am basing my info on watching this Italian guy do demos with a couple traffic reflectors. and I haven't figured out what he means by "cut plane."

But even if you are right, then you'd still have a 3-D plane, it's just that then the path variance from clubface at impact would cause the ball to move past the face boundary, further expanding the plane (on a draw, moving the boundary further left). And actually the more I think about it, it seems to me there must be a d-plane at impact that causes a curving effect on ball that can predict where ball ends up but ball flight itself is a curve above the d-plane (does that make sense?).

Maybe the Italian guy can explain.