Divot question.....UPDATE

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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
What would be the cause of a Divot that starts out square to the plane line but then turns left at the end?

This is crude, but something like this: /--

When i went to see brian i had a problem of pulling hard left after impact to keep the ball straight because my left wrist was bent. I know now that it isn't because i monitor it with my tac-tic and when this begins to happen i also stick a tee in the ground about 6" in front of the ball and try to hit that through impact and even then it still curves left.

Also sometimes the divot is deeper by the toe than the heel, could all of this be a lie angle issue from the toe digging?

Any help is appreciated
 
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Ringer

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A proper swinging motion. Heh. They're supposed to turn left at the end.

The toe into the ground could be either of your hands getting high and closer to the ball (proping the club up higher at impact) or from an improper lie angle. Difficult to tell unless someone observes the motion.
 
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MizunoJoe

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It's not possible to hit the inside of the ball and have a divot which starts out straight and then points left. You are hitting the back or outside of the ball.
 
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cdog

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Ok, seems to me i heard Brian explain at a lecture i attended the divot WILL turn to the left with a right hander......the path is inside to square to inside, the back to the inside is where the divot would turn left.
 
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MizunoJoe

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Maybe Brian could explain how you could hit the inside of the ball with an open clubface, down and out, before low point, with a flat left wrist, AND THEN have the divot turn left. It would take a "knee" plane to get flat enough to do that. Most swing planes are relatively upright and produce straight divots, even with long irons.
 
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Ringer

New
MizJoe - Remember that you don't actually contact the ground until AFTER SEPERATION with the ball. So it is quite possible to strike the inside aft part of the ball and achieve a square entry into the ground.
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

Maybe Brian could explain how you could hit the inside of the ball with an open clubface, down and out, before low point, with a flat left wrist, AND THEN have the divot turn left. It would take a "knee" plane to get flat enough to do that. Most swing planes are relatively upright and produce straight divots, even with long irons.
Click to expand...

Never said that i am hitting the right part of the ball...i am just saying that my left wrist is flat, the ball is going pretty straight, i hear the compression of the ball, and the divot ends up like i said
 
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MizunoJoe

New
Ringer,

The low point is below ground and slightly to the right of the plane line. A down and out impact will have the leading edge cut the ground square and then go slightly out to the right into the ground to low point.
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
I would say that they are a little deep at times, but that is from the toe digging in. Otherwise they are just about perfect. Maybe i'm just not swinging enough to the right

Do you think a laser would help me, ie tracing the plane line?
 
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Ringer

New
The low point of the swing is where the ball is to have seperation. If the ball sits on the ground it will be forced to come off the clubface just prior to this point.. so you very well could be right Miz.
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Little update....i couldn't hit balls tonight but i was in a field near my house and took some divots (without a ball) and i really tried swinging more out to the right versus toward the target and back to the inside and the divots looked straighter and even a little out to the right towards the end.

Maybe i can hit some balls tomorrow and try it out
 
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MizunoJoe

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Jim,

Yes, a laser or plane board might reveal something. A bent plane line could be causing the leftward divots. But since you are compressing the ball, which is near impossible with a bent plane line, I would think that you are swinging slightly outside to inside, and the laser/plane board would reveal it.
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Well i went and hit balls tonight and i was really trying to hit outwards and towards the right to get the ball to go straight and i could get a divot that looked outside-in once in a while.

The problem isn't an out-in problem but simply an old ingrained habit. When i went to brian i had a pretty bad bent wrist at impact and to keep the ball from going right i would pull hard to the inside after impact to get it to go straight. So once you combine that motion with a better plane and still pull hard left you get my divot problem. I saw my swing on video and it isn't coming outside the plane i just don't swing "out" enough.

Now here's another question: When i tend to pull hard towards the inside after impact (even with a flat wrist) i tend to hit a small fade so i wonder if it is even worth working on as my fade is pretty reliable.

Either way i'm going to get a laser to attach to the club to try and see what is going on.
 
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MizunoJoe

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Did you mean to say "inside-out once in a while", rather than "outside-in once in a while"? If so, I still think you are not inside and deep enough if you can't ALWAYS get a proper divot by swing out to the right.

What you are saying in the 2nd paragraph is that you have a bent plane line. I wonder then, how you are able to compress the ball?

I suggest you get a laser that points in both directions to make sure one end of the club is always pointing at the plane line(except when parallel).
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

Did you mean to say "inside-out once in a while", rather than "outside-in once in a while"? If so, I still think you are not inside and deep enough if you can't ALWAYS get a proper divot by swing out to the right.

What you are saying in the 2nd paragraph is that you have a bent plane line. I wonder then, how you are able to compress the ball?

I suggest you get a laser that points in both directions to make sure one end of the club is always pointing at the plane line(except when parallel).
Click to expand...

Yes i meant "inside-out" thanks, it was late last night. As for my bent plane line and compression, maybe i am "polishing" the ball ike brian says and not achieving full compression because i can hear the ball sizzle away.

I ordered the lasers from clyde (golfjustlikethepros) last night and plan to work with them next week.

Thanks for your help mizuno, i'll let you know what the lasers say about my plane line and what they tell me i'm doing
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Well i received my shaft plane lasers and i found a few things:

1) my wrist wasn't flat enough on the takeaway to stay on the plane line

2) after the takeaway the swing would get a little flat and the laser would point outside the plane line.

---So now i am making my left wrist flatter and going more up than behind. However i feel that i am having problems pivoting correctly. Unfortunately i couldn't check out my divots cuz the grass is closed for the season at my local range but not at another so i still plan to go.

The results from the flatter wrist and more upright backswing created a higher straighter flight with what felt like good compression off of matts. Also i feel that i'm swining more in-out and really feeling that out because i have that feeling that i'm swining out to right field whereas before i was trying to force that feeling.

However like i previously stated the pivot feels odd and i don't know if i'm doing it correctly.
 
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MizunoJoe

New
Here's a little drill you can do with the laser. Swing toward the top and stop when the club is about vertical. At this point, do a lateral shift of the hips and trace the plane line with the laser, while keeping the hands/club in the same position as when you stopped. When you run out of lateral hip movement, thrust the butt of the club(laser beam) toward the plane line. That is how the pivot works.
 
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corky05

New
I would have thought divot to the left is correct. As, clubface is shutting post impact and club is moving left, up, an around post impact. Are you sure you want the divot straight? I try to watch this on TV and invariably their divots seem to fly out to the left. Another advantage they have with regards to their divots is fantastic turf. Some of the stuff I've played on could break your wrist!
 
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