Divot Straight at Target - Ball flight 7m left?

[smooth]

Was out on the course practicing last night and hit a couple of balls into a green with the SW from about 80m. Both balls landed within a couple of feet of each other, both were about 7m LEFT of where i was aiming.

Checked both divots by laying down a club and both were pretty much pointing straight at where i was aiming (i.e. not noticably left or right of the target)

The ball flight was straight with no noticeable fade or draw. Divot was after the ball.

Thoughts as to what is going on? lie angles maybe?

 

[dannyc]

clubface is closed

 

[Tom Bartlett]

Wind, clubs too upright, club face closed slightly, grip too strong, shafts too stiff, side hill lie, the pin moved

All except the first and last would = club face closed.

 

[smooth]

Wind, clubs too upright, club face closed slightly, grip too strong, shafts too stiff, side hill lie, the pin moved

All except the first and last would = club face closed.

Wouldn't a closed clubface create a divot that pointed left?

Not trying to be smart just want to check. Thanks

 

[Deadly_Scope]

clubs too upright.....

= club face closed.

Do you mean - that if the club was on a plane angle steeper than the club was designed for - and was tilting the clubface - cos if so, all things being equal that would actually move the line perpendicular to the clubface to the right of target instead of to the left.

I have a feeling that isn't what you mean't but could you clarify?

 

[Tom Bartlett]

Wouldn't a closed clubface create a divot that pointed left?

Not trying to be smart just want to check. Thanks

No. To hit a draw you would have to have the face closed in relation to the path. Path would be a divot (assuming you took one) to the right of where the face was aiming. The front or back or both front and back of the divot could be "out of square" so to speak with the divot but the direction of the divot can be different than the club face.

As I stated in another thread. I don't have a problem with people questioning or disagreeing with me. It's when they start name calling and insulting me that it's a problem.

 

[Tom Bartlett]

Do you mean - that if the club was on a plane angle steeper than the club was designed for - and was tilting the clubface - cos if so, all things being equal that would actually move the line perpendicular to the clubface to the right of target instead of to the left.

I have a feeling that isn't what you mean't but could you clarify?

No, I meant the lie angle of the club is too upright (Toe of the club off the ground). So, the line perpendicular to the club face would point left.

 

[Deadly_Scope]

No, I meant the lie angle of the club is too upright (Toe of the club off the ground). So, the line perpendicular to the club face would point left.

Yup, understand what you mean't now - makes perfect sence.

 

[twitch127]

Do you mean - that if the club was on a plane angle steeper than the club was designed for - and was tilting the clubface - cos if so, all things being equal that would actually move the line perpendicular to the clubface to the right of target instead of to the left.

I have a feeling that isn't what you mean't but could you clarify?
Today 02:21 AM

Deadly, Having the lie angle too Upright will raise the toe end of the club slightly off the ground at impact and always points the face/loft left. Use a laser or a lie angle tool. If the plane angle was steeper with an upright lie angle he would have hit it straight

Wouldn't a closed clubface create a divot that pointed left?

Depeneds on how long the ball stays on the clubface and how fast the clubface is rotating through impact interval and path ie the ball only starts it flight in the direction the face is orientated at seperation. It can point one direction at seperation and another direction at low point (base of the divot).

I once saw Paul McGinley hit 5 yard draws that STARTED RIGHT of the TARGET and drew back - never landed left of the target - the divots all pointed to 11 o'clock. HOW?? Slight in-to-out path (maybe 4 degrees) clubface slightly closed to path (maybe 2 degrees) but open to line of flight at seperation - after seperation on the way to low point he pulls the clubhead as hard as he can to the left with an angled hinge. The 5 yard draw with an anti-hook mechanism built in
It is a Bob Torrance special but won't work for everyone.
I haven't seen NHA but I'm sure Brian has a pattern for the player who wants this.

 

[jake2]

Depeneds on how long the ball stays on the clubface and how fast the clubface is rotating through impact interval and path ie the ball only starts it flight in the direction the face is orientated at seperation. It can point one direction at seperation and another direction at low point (base of the divot).

I once saw Paul McGinley hit 5 yard draws that STARTED RIGHT of the TARGET and drew back - never landed left of the target - the divots all pointed to 11 o'clock. HOW?? Slight in-to-out path (maybe 4 degrees) clubface slightly closed to path (maybe 2 degrees) but open to line of flight at seperation - after seperation on the way to low point he pulls the clubhead as hard as he can to the left with an angled hinge. The 5 yard draw with an anti-hook mechanism built in
It is a Bob Torrance special but won't work for everyone.
I haven't seen NHA but I'm sure Brian has a pattern for the player who wants this.

Couldn't one say that in most cases divot straight at target would mean slightly inside out path at separation. Assumes clean contact, low point forward of the ball, no sidehill lie ...

Wedge shots seem to fly almost straight regardless of some sidespin imparted by path/face angle differences and the governing factor is face direction at separation (is it the same 70-80% face?).
In my experience you can only see the sidespin if the ball lands someplace hard enough that I can see it roll.

The apparently straight flight must be due to the fact that sidespin component is relatively smal due to lower cludhead speed and due to much higher backspin component, so the rotation axis of the ball tilts much less than with lower lofted clubs (similar path/face angle differences). Also the shot distance is shorter so any small curvature would be more difficult to detect.

 

[mb6606]

Assuming a square/square stance target line.
If the low point of the inclined plane is underground - wouldn't it make sense that divots should start slightly right of the target line?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Assuming a square/square stance target line.
If the low point of the inclined plane is underground - wouldn't it make sense that divots should start slightly right of the target line?

Due to the steep angle of attack, the effect of how much "inside/out" you swung will be visually negated when looking at the divot unless you swung SEVERLY inside out.

 

[jenhaoyen]

Due to the steep angle of attack, the effect of how much "inside/out" you swung will be visually negated when looking at the divot unless you swung SEVERLY inside out.

yes, that's very true.

I struggled with this problem for a long time and i thought i was swinging outside in. So i til my spine even more, and the result = blisters and body pain.

Now i just swing as much left as i can. I don't even care if i hit a fade anymore, as long as i'm not in the left i'm happy.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Listen close.

Let's say the divot points dead straight.

You can have a PATH that is anywhere from WAY INSIDE-OUT, to fairly straight.

Got it?

 

[drulf]

PATH for dummies at work, please?

Let's say the divot points dead straight.

You can have a PATH that is anywhere from WAY INSIDE-OUT, to fairly straight.

Got it?

OK face angle you can guess roughly from where the ball starts (80%)
BUT how long is the PATH? Path at separation? I guess we are able to bend the path line? Rough estimates from divot look at separation... is all we have?
OK I´ll shoot 1200 fps close-ups with the Casio and compare with my divots...?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

he is alluding more to the d-plane...

 

[smooth]

Let's say the divot points dead straight.

You can have a PATH that is anywhere from WAY INSIDE-OUT, to fairly straight.

Got it?

Ok so that means that if my divot was pointing straight at the target but the ball is going straight left then it must be the clubface that is pointing left of the target at seperation and not a path issue?

Interesting when you see a pro hit a bad shot on TV they often stand back behind their divot and have a look.... so basically this is a waste of time?

Thanks

 

[puttmad]

Interesting when you see a pro hit a bad shot on TV they often stand back behind their divot and have a look.... so basically this is a waste of time?

No, the result of a shot is the combination of path and face angle, so basically they are checking the only residual evidence they have and correlating that with where the ball went......and dont forget, you don't always see exactly where the ball starts, because your eyes take a while to catch up to it....(unless you are like Stenson or Annika...)

 

[jake2]

Let's say the divot points dead straight.
You can have a PATH that is anywhere from WAY INSIDE-OUT, to fairly straight.
Got it?

This has to do with the amount of forward lean?
Same D-plane issue as being able to hook it while tracing a straight plane line with an an open club face in relation to the plane line?

 

[twitch127]

Same D-plane issue as being able to hook it while tracing a straight plane line with an an open club face in relation to the plane line?

Explain.........

This has to do with the amount of forward lean?

OR put another way - how far away the primary lever is at impact from low point - Geometry of the circle - (delta between impact plane line and low point plane line). The more it is away the deeper the divot and more right it will point -If the cluubface is perpendicular to the path. If it is rotating fast ie horizontal hinge (concept) then the divot will straighten up.

BUT how long is the PATH? Path at separation? I guess we are able to bend the path line? Rough estimates from divot look at separation... is all we have?

Bending the clubhead orbit by swinging left through seperation and to low point. The left shoulder (fulcrum of the primary lever) is moving back and up hard.

Someone needs to post up the standard geometry of the circle diagram that any familar with TGM will recognise. It will clear a lot of things up.