Do new players need a better standard of instructor?

[Steve Khatib]

Speaking from personal experience I have had a lot of friends and clients refer students to me. Only to have the student say to their friend prior to coming for any instruction "oh he is only suitable for better players, I am a beginner he is too good a teacher for me". "I just need an okay instructor to teach me the basics".

I challenge is paradime. I believe it is actually more important for a new player to have instruction from the best availible person. If you can allready hit it you will still benefit from the best guy ofcourse, howver a line drawing teacher at a busy turnstyle range might not ruin you as much as, they might just make a beginner quit the game.

What are everyones thoughts on this topic?

 

[tongzilla]

Do you want/need someone with a PhD in Maths to teach you multiplication?

 

[Kevin Shields]

I think the perception might be on cost. You could, conceivably at least, learn some good things about the grip, posture and such from a twenty dollar book rather than get those principles from a $150 hour teacher.

But.....once you put some motion into the equation, I would go to the best right off the bat. You can get screwed from the very beginning from an average or below average instructor. The person teaching multiplication in grade school doesnt have to know anything past that. Once the golf student "graduates" to the more advanced teaher, he can spend alot of time undoing the mistakes the previous teacher made with misconceptions, etc.
Not so with math.

Now if the "advanced" teacher cant dumb down the talk and over uses alot of jargon and angles, then its the teacher's fault if he cant get any new players.

"If you cant explain it in childlike terms, you dont really know it yourself."

 

[ggsjpc]

Like most professionals in any career, I think the more a person specializes the more value they create for themselves in that area. If a teacher specializes in advanced players, it is that teacher's responsibility to state that at the onset and hopefully they know someone that specializes in beginners.

To piggy back: What should a beginner learn to keep them from quitting? I think it is speed then face

 

[GPM1985]

Why wouldn't anyone, as a beginner, not want to begin with the best available quality of instruction? Even if a new golfer only needs a primer on the basics, wouldn't a great instructor be able to instill the fundamentals more effectively than a mediocre instructor? I completely agree that a great instructor will be more beneficial for the novice player as the rate of improvement will be much more rapid.

 

[twitch127]

To piggy back: What should a beginner learn to keep them from quitting? I think it is speed then face

I recently started a thread on this - have a look, that's another topic

Keeping to the topic at hand
Stevie, I think it really depends on the students perceptions - Hjack is a perfect example of this. Oh Manzella is too technical for me etc... A lot of people think that TGM AI's are too technical ONLY because run of the mill PGA Pro's and most of the golfing mainstream media haven't got the first clue about what TGM stands for and tell everyone who will listen this - including their students. At a PGA summit a pro asked me what my teaching philosophy was and I answered him and mentioned I was an AI and he said "Oh, I don't treat my golfers like machines I teach them as individuals and work out a swing that best suits them" I just looked at him and laughed (hello chapter 10) - was about to burst into an energetic tyrade to set him straight but I just shook my head and walked off. I asked Martin Hall who he preferred teaching Tour Player or Beginner and he said Beginners hands down.. It's the challenge of communicating complex ideas and concepts in very simple terms which very few can do well. I think the best communicators are the best teachers and if you know your stuff you can teach anyone. Your right with the PGA mentality... Give the trainee the beginner classes and the juniors -- aaaahhhhhh I couldn't think of a worse approach - let's try some testing of guinea pigs on the new golfer because he won't know any different - why do you think most only take 1 or 2 lessons and then try and learn the game by themselves. Do the PGA hand out white lab coats to the Aussie trainees these days - and what happened to PGA pro's mentoring and giving a trainee a golfing education. One day they will get some progressive people on the board and start specializing the profession properly.

 

[Steve Khatib]

I asked Martin Hall who he preferred teaching Tour Player or Beginner and he said Beginners hands down.. It's the challenge of communicating complex ideas and concepts in very simple terms which very few can do well. I think the best communicators are the best teachers and if you know your stuff you can teach anyone. Your right with the PGA mentality... Give the trainee the beginner classes and the juniors -- aaaahhhhhh I couldn't think of a worse approach -

Great Points raised- Thanks Marcus.

 

[Bronco Billy]

It is Your Fault that Johnny Can't Play Golf.....

Speaking from personal experience I have had a lot of friends and clients refer students to me. Only to have the student say to their friend prior to coming for any instruction "oh he is only suitable for better players, I am a beginner he is too good a teacher for me". "I just need an okay instructor to teach me the basics".

I challenge is paradime. I believe it is actually more important for a new player to have instruction from the best availible person. If you can allready hit it you will still benefit from the best guy ofcourse, howver a line drawing teacher at a busy turnstyle range might not ruin you as much as, they might just make a beginner quit the game.

What are everyones thoughts on this topic?

You All Teach a Kid Setup, Posture, Grip, Balance, Etc. Then You Tell Them to Take a Whack at the Golf Ball..... Then You Line Your Pockets the Rest of the Kids Golfing Life Trying to "FIX" his "GolfSwing"..... You Do NOT Teach a Touring Pro BackSwing...... Without a Touring Pro BackSwing.... Hitting a Golf Ball is a Life Long Struggle...... Have a Great Day.....

 

[Bigwill]

You All Teach a Kid Setup, Posture, Grip, Balance, Etc. Then You Tell Them to Take a Whack at the Golf Ball....

Isn't this how most (if not all) touring pros learned the game, initially, especially if they started very young? If they had any early instruction at all? I would guess that most of the hackers of the world were beginners as adults.

 

[Bronco Billy]

Exactly.....

Isn't this how most (if not all) touring pros learned the game, initially, especially if they started very young? If they had any early instruction at all? I would guess that most of the hackers of the world were beginners as adults.

Ten Percent of the Golfing Population "Naturally" BackSwing Like a Touring Pro on the First Pass and Thus Have a Very Satisfying Golfing Life.... The Rest of Us are "Screwed" and End up Lining the "Magistras" Pockets..... It is Their Fault that We Can't Play Golf.... And They Either Don't Give a Damn or They Don't Know What the Hell They are Doing... In Any Event Have a Great Day....

 

[twitch127]

Ten Percent of the Golfing Population "Naturally" BackSwing Like a Touring Pro on the First Pass and Thus Have a Very Satisfying Golfing Life....

Desert Island golf Bronco...........

 

[jpeck]

How about a thread like this: The Worst Golf Lesson You Ever Got.

I feel sure there would be some wicked stories in there despite the perceived 'level' of the instructor. One of the things I've come to realise is that many beginners just do not understand how any 'pro' could be a poor instructor. He's a PGA member, right? He's a professional, right? He gives lessons for a living, he must know what he's doing...

The beginner needs the best instruction he can get as soon as he picks up a club. That means finding the best teacher, not some hack with a nice sweater.

 

[Steve Khatib]

How about a thread like this: The Worst Golf Lesson You Ever Got.

I feel sure there would be some wicked stories in there despite the perceived 'level' of the instructor. One of the things I've come to realise is that many beginners just do not understand how any 'pro' could be a poor instructor. He's a PGA member, right? He's a professional, right? He gives lessons for a living, he must know what he's doing...

The beginner needs the best instruction he can get as soon as he picks up a club. That means finding the best teacher, not some hack with a nice sweater.

100% agreed. The student doesnt know he doesnt know how to choose a golf instructor.

The decision that the student makes is location and personality based only.

"The worst ever lesson" is a great thread idea. Also how about "criteria to take into consideration: how to choose a golf instructor".

A couple of new thread ideas?

 

[Bigwill]

Ten Percent of the Golfing Population "Naturally" BackSwing Like a Touring Pro on the First Pass and Thus Have a Very Satisfying Golfing Life.... The Rest of Us are "Screwed" and End up Lining the "Magistras" Pockets..... It is Their Fault that We Can't Play Golf.... And They Either Don't Give a Damn or They Don't Know What the Hell They are Doing... In Any Event Have a Great Day....

Nevermind

 

[Zztop]

it's easy to take something simple and make it complicated, it's hard to take something complicated and make it simple.

 

[birdie_man]

Great thread. Tricky question...

Mostly I can't see why you wouldn't want to get started off very well if you can afford a lesson or a few.

What comes directly to mind is.....most teachers wouldn't even know how important it is to fix your clubface. (and I mean fix, not band-aid) Most beginners need it. It's simple enough from a BM.com point of view but...

Brian's said this many a time (recently in the "if you could only teach 3 things" thread) but if you could get a good grip/setup, some clubface control, and a "swing" (in the true sense of the word...i.e. swing set) you are off and running pretty well.

Simple enough but the question is how many people ARE gonna get you off and running like that.

Getting it taken care of (if compared with NOT) might just be worth $50...........$100.........$200. Who knows.

 

[Bronco Billy]

Exactly.....

it's easy to take something simple and make it complicated, it's hard to take something complicated and make it simple.

The Rewards are Great when the Latter is Accomplished.... Newton even Had a Cookie Named after Him..... Have a Great Day....

 

[Richie3Jack]

I used to get instruction from a GSED in Myrtle Beach about ten years ago. I remember him telling me that he 'loved' teaching beginners (I wasn't a beginner, just a pro talking some shop). I really believe that the majority of pros who can legitimately help out the scratch golfer and the tour pro are usually great working with beginners and a lot of times when they are working with touring pros or scratch golfers, they are more or less a consultant or a sounding board for the pro or an extra set of eyes who knows the player's golf swing and game and can spot some flaws the player is falling back into.

It's kind of like I posted in the other thread about Brian and being able to teach beginners. If he gets technical, it's because that's what a good chunk of the viewers of his videos and the readers of his posts are looking for. But, if he's with a golfer who wants it simple, he'll make it simple. I find most legitimately good instructors...and I think there's quite a few of them out there....do that.

I think the standard needs to be raised on the new player's part. The good instructors are out there, they just need to believe that the good instructor CAN teach them and improve their game. And if they get confused, all they have to say is 'I don't understand' (although that is difficult for many golfers to admit to). Otherwise, going to some crappy instructor who uses the same ole teaching cliches and teaches the same ole band aids is just going to keep them playing the same, spending more money and getting more frustrated with the game.



3JACK