downswing sequence

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shootin4par

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to the best of my knowledge the downswing starts with a shift to the left side, then the hips unwind to about 30 degrees open, then the shoulders power through and the follow through actually pulls the hips into their finish position. So the hips dont race to the finish position, the following through of the torso/club brings them there. Is there a key to starting the downswing where the hips only unwind to this position, say starting with the right knee going towards the ball, which will unwind the hips but only so far? I had read on here that brian says that VERY RARELY does he tell someone to slow down their shoulders. Can you guys elaborate on this so I may understand better? I am doing some reading most everyday so one day my questions will be in TGM terminology.
 
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shootin4par

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quote:Originally posted by jim_0068

The more you slow down the pivot the easier it is to throw it away.
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are you saying by slowing the pivot I might just loose it all togethor, so I should not try and slow the pivot?
or by saying "throw it away" does that mean something else in TGM terms?
 
Erik_K

Erik_K

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http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/vba_index.php?page=browse_images&g=19

Go over to Lynn's site and watch the Tom Tomasello vids. They are free and highly instructive. He elaborates on what you ask over and over again.

Basically, once you reach the top, he advocates pulling the club back down to the 'halfway back position' (the place where the toe is facing skyward during the backswing-club shaft more or less parallel to the target line). As you do this dropping move, the left hip opens in RESPONSE to that. The left is hip is rotating, make room so the right forearm can trace the straight plane line. If you open the hips prematurely, says Tomasello, you will end up throwing the club OVER the plane.

Thus, even though if you tell a poorer player to start the swing from teh ground up, they must do this in concert with pulling the arms down plane (I guess some call this 'slotting' the swing) and then the powerful rotation of the hips along with the right arm extension slams the face on the inside-aft quadrant of the ball.
 
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denny.

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What moves first when you walk?


The answer is your head ---------------------you lean forward.
Will you walk better now. NO
Feel VS Real.
Moniter your hands. #3 pressure pt.
 
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EdZ

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quote:Originally posted by jim_0068

The more you slow down the pivot the easier it is to throw it away.
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Which indicates you are out of sequence and should be working on slowing down until you've got it (subject to 'keeping up with gravity' of course). It is possible to go 'too slow' for a given number of accumulators, just use less accumulators and 'build' from there.
 
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scripkilla

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If you are right handed, the easiest drill to comprehend the tempo and sequence of the backswing/downswing is to throw (or act like you are throwing) a baseball submarine style (sidearm). Your right arm follows a very similar, if not the same, path during the BS in golf - think of the "rearing back" before throwing a baseball. The weight shift that innately occurs when you then proceed to finish the throwing motion is the EXACT same tempo and weight shift you want in initiating and ultimately finishing the downswing movements. Try it and you'll be amazed that all along you had the tempo in you. If you do not know how to throw sidearm, I'm afraid this concept will not help you as much.
 
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6bee1dee

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Nice discovery scrip. I have always liken the golf swing to a side arm submarine pitcher than to a batter. Now, that movement of the right arm is known in these parts as the Magic of the Right Forearm. The move it makes back and up and down and out traces the plane line that runs along the ground and DOWN into the ball. I think you might like checking it out for yourself.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
You wanna know how to pivot??

Go to a really vacant field and throw clubs as far as you can from address.

Even better, throw them "down plane" off of a sharp hill.

I PROMISE THE FOLLOWING!:

You will make a pivot that on video, would make Sam Snead proud and you WON'T worry about sequence, slowing down the shoulders, or "pivot tripod center."
 
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MizunoJoe

New
Throwing clubs downrange may effectively train the pivot, but will also reinforce the inate fault of every hacker of making a hand effort toward the target, PLUS the added negative of encouraging casting. One step forward and two backwards. The pivot is best trained by getting the student to try to pound the ball DOWN INTO THE GROUND.
 
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shootin4par

New
If you have released the hand where the ball would be then you will not efectively throw it down range, and are doing the drill incorrectly, and will take no steps forward.
 
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MizunoJoe

New
quote:Originally posted by shootin4par

If you have released the hand where the ball would be then you will not efectively throw it down range, and are doing the drill incorrectly, and will take no steps forward.
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In most cases, if a student released the hands so that the club did go downrange, had there been a ball on the ground, then he would not have struck it properly. His emphasis was improperly focused toward the target rather than down into the ground.
 
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rundmc

Banned
quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

Throwing clubs downrange may effectively train the pivot, but will also reinforce the inate fault of every hacker of making a hand effort toward the target, PLUS the added negative of encouraging casting. One step forward and two backwards. The pivot is best trained by getting the student to try to pound the ball DOWN INTO THE GROUND.
Click to expand...

PRECISELY!!!! Joe . . . great post. How do you teach "pound the ball DOWN INTO THE GROUND?"

Thanks!

r
 
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MizunoJoe

New
run,

The student must TRY to do something unrealistic to get the desired result. He must use the pivot to get his hands so far forward that when the angle releases it SEEMS that the face of the club will be facing the ground when impact occurs, and the ball will TRULY be driven into the turf. Most people have a difficult time doing that and will do a panic flip having gotten in the correct position, rather than let CF throw the clubhead into the ball. Their subconscious will simply not allow them to do it. So the intention and goal in development has to be focused on simply burying the ball and the real objective of getting the ball in the air forgotten. Then after having successfully done it, the real work begins, because the success will almost always redirect the attention back to the real objective and away from the artificial goal which brought the success, i.e., regression. One remedy is to not allow the student to watch the ball after contact, but only feel the mash, hear the ground thunder, and look at the divot. He must be convinced to disregard the forward and upward clubhead movement in the downswing.

The instincts every hacker are to catch the ball at the bottom of the arc and make a targetward hand effort. I know this because I did it for years!
 
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Bigwill

New
"He must use the pivot to get his hands so far forward that when the angle releases it SEEMS that the face of the club will be facing the ground when impact occurs, and the ball will TRULY be driven into the turf."

How do you train someone who's been flipping, scooping, etc., to do this?
 
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rundmc

Banned
quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

run,

The student must TRY to do something unrealistic to get the desired result. He must use the pivot to get his hands so far forward that when the angle releases it SEEMS that the face of the club will be facing the ground when impact occurs, and the ball will TRULY be driven into the turf. Most people have a difficult time doing that and will do a panic flip having gotten in the correct position, rather than let CF throw the clubhead into the ball. Their subconscious will simply not allow them to do it. So the intention and goal in development has to be focused on simply burying the ball and the real objective of getting the ball in the air forgotten. Then after having successfully done it, the real work begins, because the success will almost always redirect the attention back to the real objective and away from the artificial goal which brought the success, i.e., regression. One remedy is to not allow the student to watch the ball after contact, but only feel the mash, hear the ground thunder, and look at the divot. He must be convinced to disregard the forward and upward clubhead movement in the downswing.

The instincts every hacker are to catch the ball at the bottom of the arc and make a targetward hand effort. I know this because I did it for years!
Click to expand...

Joe,

Great Post! This is one of the most succinct post on Swinging I have ever read. Good stuff.

Do you advise/use Max Trigger of the Pitch Right Elbow in achieve the "unrealistic" objective of getting the hands that far forward? I know that you are a big fan of Max Trigger of #2 but what about #1?

Thanks!

R
 
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MizunoJoe

New
run,

Thanks - but this is how extreme I had to get to fix myself. No, I don't think of the right elbow, but it does end up in a pitch position as a natural consequence. I am thinking of the club staying up in the air til I've floated(lateral shift) the hands to release position.
 
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