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[Burner]

Burner,
What if, instead, you used the same motion as a whip?
All the energy is put into the whip handle at the beginning of the action IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION for the intended result...After that the whip cracks with no further effort..
So if you try it with your golf swing...put the effort in early ON PLANE. The C/F created, with a little help from your pivot, will do the rest...

I understand that the application of a steadily increasing force throughout the downswing creates a loading on the shaft which needs to be maintained through impact; "putting the effort in early" defeats this object, I believe.

BUT, my trying to add to this force immediately prior to impact - cracking the metaphorical whip by flipping the right wrist from cocked to bent - has been one of the problems I still have to guard against. Throwaway!

I played cricket for over 45 years where, when bowling at pace, this type of wrist action was an imperative, as it is in throwing (away) a ball.

Old habits do not die, hard or otherwise, they have to be overridden.

 

[Spike]

Hi Brian, Jim, Burner and all, (youtobirdieman)

Finally got settled into my place in Chiang Mai Thailand and...hey...got the internet hooked up!!! Great to see things haven't changed too much.

As you know my TGM knowledge is limited so I'll try my best to keep up with y'all and accept all corrections...ok here goes.....

I attempt to uncock my wrists before the completion of the backswing. This seems to activate my left hip (when I do it right). I can straight line deliver or circular deliver but in either case I am attempting to uncock and roll down out and through impact. This action/motion brings into play extensor action of the right arm giving me a feeling in the right hand that it is "shoaring up/bracing" impact condition.

Due to the state of resistance of the left wrist being uncocked my right hand stays bent back. Now this feeling makes me think I know what Hogan meant by wishing he had 3 right hands. Those are the feelings I have.

That being said, I must admit that I cannot snap release very well which in my opinion requires a pulling down awareness to start delivery, which I can see in my mind's eye but just cannot do comfortably. This may be due to the fact that my left hip clearance is not good enough or big enough...not sure.

Either way it seems, to me, that there must be some muscular force in any "swing". Therefore there must be a little "hit" in every swing.
Am I way out of line here...missing something..etc.?

spike

 

[puttmad]

I understand that the application of a steadily increasing force throughout the downswing creates a loading on the shaft which needs to be maintained through impact; "putting the effort in early" defeats this object, I believe.

BUT, my trying to add to this force immediately prior to impact - cracking the metaphorical whip by flipping the right wrist from cocked to bent - has been one of the problems I still have to guard against. Throwaway!

I played cricket for over 45 years where, when bowling at pace, this type of wrist action was an imperative, as it is in throwing (away) a ball.

Old habits do not die, hard or otherwise, they have to be overridden.

Burner, did you notice I mentioned "with a little help from your pivot?" By this I meant that it is the speed of your pivot that allows your hand/arm unit to stay ahead of the club, thus retaining the lag...If the speed of your pivot is too slow, you will unload too early, so the trick is to pivot fast enough to stay ahead..
So even if you "put the effort in early," as long as you pivot fast enough, you will retain the lag..and because, in this instance, you have activated clubhead speed "from the top" instead of trying to delay the action, you will have no need to put in the "low down" effort, which you say is causing the right hand flipping, you can just allow the release to control itself, with no impedence or addition....

BTW the "early effort" as related to the the whip crack, to me is not a sustained movement...it is more of an impetus that is more like a twitch, the same as when you use a real whip. You twitch the whip handle and start it moving in a circle, and then immediately STOP THE ACTION. The stopping of the action is what allows the whip to catch up and crack...

 

[Burner]

Burner, did you notice I mentioned "with a little help from your pivot?" By this I meant that it is the speed of your pivot that allows your hand/arm unit to stay ahead of the club, thus retaining the lag...If the speed of your pivot is too slow, you will unload too early, so the trick is to pivot fast enough to stay ahead..
So even if you "put the effort in early," as long as you pivot fast enough, you will retain the lag..and because, in this instance, you have activated clubhead speed "from the top" instead of trying to delay the action, you will have no need to put in the "low down" effort, which you say is causing the right hand flipping, you can just allow the release to control itself, with no impedence or addition....

BTW the "early effort" as related to the the whip crack, to me is not a sustained movement...it is more of an impetus that is more like a twitch, the same as when you use a real whip. You twitch the whip handle and start it moving in a circle, and then immediately STOP THE ACTION. The stopping of the action is what allows the whip to catch up and crack...

PM,

The pivot point was not missed, just disregarded in my attempt to explain that, all else notwithstanding, I have a compulsion, it seems, rather than any mechanical need, to chuck in the right wrist flip. Almost Austinesque, yet it predates my knowledge of Mike Austin, who I am not trying to emulate.

It is the timing of this, so called, flip that causes the problem, as a well timed action does, indeed, add some distance - but only when it occurs post impact, having transmogerified into a swivel.

BTW, I am not having a pop but I do hate that whip analogy.

 

[puttmad]

.....

PM,

The pivot point was not missed, just disregarded in my attempt to explain that, all else notwithstanding, I have a compulsion, it seems, rather than any mechanical need, to chuck in the right wrist flip. Almost Austinesque, yet it predates my knowledge of Mike Austin, who I am not trying to emulate.

It is the timing of this, so called, flip that causes the problem, as a well timed action does, indeed, add some distance - but only when it occurs post impact, having transmogerified into a swivel.

BTW, I am not having a pop but I do hate that whip analogy.

Burner, points undestood and noted mate...

What I may have not clarified was that the art is to initiate the motion but then stop as soon as you atart it...seems like you are sustaining the action, thus overdoing it...
Just a thought...
How about full slo-mo swings to try and get the feeling of keeping it in check? Like take your driver out and just aim to hit it to the 150 or 175 yard marker....
You'll have a job bashing your right hand in on those...

 

[Spike]

Hiya Burner!

It seems to me that every shot should have uncocking and rolling except when using a verticle hinge. In my experience just the uncocking, fully, has the tendency to create an angled hinge if you are not quitting on the shot. There is a natural release of the right wrist when we run out of right arm giving us that type of hinge.
mho

 

[Burner]

Burner, points undestood and noted mate...

What I may have not clarified was that the art is to initiate the motion but then stop as soon as you atart it...seems like you are sustaining the action, thus overdoing it...
Just a thought...
How about full slo-mo swings to try and get the feeling of keeping it in check? Like take your driver out and just aim to hit it to the 150 or 175 yard marker....
You'll have a job bashing your right hand in on those...

I am sure that on occasion my wrist has a mind of its own.

My usual therapy is to revert to chipping in order to reinforce the motion.

Not too sure that I could hit the driver 150/175!

Bit windy today, as you would know, so I thought I would lay up on a par 5 so that I had a nice little sand iron in to the green. Laid up from just over 200 yards with a 9i and finished up in the green side bunker. WTF?

 

[Burner]

Hiya Burner!

It seems to me that every shot should have uncocking and rolling except when using a verticle hinge. In my experience just the uncocking, fully, has the tendency to create an angled hinge if you are not quitting on the shot. There is a natural release of the right wrist when we run out of right arm giving us that type of hinge.
mho

Hey Spike, how ya' doing?

Agree with all of the above. However, doesn't mean that I, or the wrist with the mind of its own, will always comply!

Good to have you back.

 

[Spike]

Hey Spike, how ya' doing?

Agree with all of the above. However, doesn't mean that I, or the wrist with the mind of its own, will always comply!

Good to have you back.

Hey man, thanks!

Doin' great over here. Although things move slowly in Thailand it is still a great place to hang out!

When I'm having trouble with the left wrist uncocking I use the left thumb as a pressure point to get the toe of the club down through impact. This is a clubhead first awareness and can solve a lot of problems. This will get the shaft to move into line with the left arm rather naturally (providing the left wrist is on top of the shaft).

Hope that helps a bit!

 

[KnighT]

I am sure that on occasion my wrist has a mind of its own.

Burner, what happens to your right wrist when you use extensor action ?

 

[Burner]

Burner, what happens to your right wrist when you use extensor action ?

Not too sure mate other than I feel that it is bent and supporting the flat left wrist on plane. Mirror work supports this view but field work may be different.

The "problem", when it creeps up on me, feels like I throw the club head into impact by unbending the right wrist immediately prior to impact itself - not a throw from the top but seems like an attempt to add club head speed via this motion.

Fortunately, I am winning the battle against the errant wrist but on the occasions that it rises above the parapet and takes a pop at me it does prove expensive, stroke wise.

Hey man, thanks!

Doin' great over here. Although things move slowly in Thailand it is still a great place to hang out!

When I'm having trouble with the left wrist uncocking I use the left thumb as a pressure point to get the toe of the club down through impact. This is a clubhead first awareness and can solve a lot of problems. This will get the shaft to move into line with the left arm rather naturally (providing the left wrist is on top of the shaft).
Hope that helps a bit!

Its throwing the club head into the ball by straightening the right wrist rather than a left wrist problem, Spike. Thanks for the advice anyway.

Glad to hear that you are enjoying Thailand. Look out for John Hue (Hue) who is a frequent visitor to those parts. Has family out there I believe.

 

[johngolf33]

If loading the lag with the pivot takes the slack out so the Gear Train can drag the load to Follow Through, and if the speed of the loading (not too fast) is important in order to sustain the lag, that brings up a catch 22 for me. It is easier for me to sustain the lag if I swing slower, shorter and heavier, but my clubhead speed is greater if I rip it, even if I lose a little of my bent right wrist. What do you recommend? Should I stay with proper alignments and swing slower for awhile, or swing harder and learn to control the clubface somehow?

 

[Spike]

Not too sure mate other than I feel that it is bent and supporting the flat left wrist on plane. Mirror work supports this view but field work may be different.

The "problem", when it creeps up on me, feels like I throw the club head into impact by unbending the right wrist immediately prior to impact itself - not a throw from the top but seems like an attempt to add club head speed via this motion.

Fortunately, I am winning the battle against the errant wrist but on the occasions that it rises above the parapet and takes a pop at me it does prove expensive, stroke wise.



Its throwing the club head into the ball by straightening the right wrist rather than a left wrist problem, Spike. Thanks for the advice anyway.

Glad to hear that you are enjoying Thailand. Look out for John Hue (Hue) who is a frequent visitor to those parts. Has family out there I believe.

Big ten-four on that able baker, Burner.

Hue, pm me when you will be in Thailand and maybe we can get together.

Johngolf33, sorry for the interruption here....I'd like to hear Brian's take on your last question.

 

[puttmad]

...

Not too sure mate other than I feel that it is bent and supporting the flat left wrist on plane. Mirror work supports this view but field work may be different.

The "problem", when it creeps up on me, feels like I throw the club head into impact by unbending the right wrist immediately prior to impact itself - not a throw from the top but seems like an attempt to add club head speed via this motion.

Fortunately, I am winning the battle against the errant wrist but on the occasions that it rises above the parapet and takes a pop at me it does prove expensive, stroke wise.



Its throwing the club head into the ball by straightening the right wrist rather than a left wrist problem, Spike. Thanks for the advice anyway.

Glad to hear that you are enjoying Thailand. Look out for John Hue (Hue) who is a frequent visitor to those parts. Has family out there I believe.

Burner,
Have you by chance ever tried using a two finger overlap grip? It tends to shut down the right hand a bit...you never know..

 

[Burner]

Burner,
Have you by chance ever tried using a two finger overlap grip? It tends to shut down the right hand a bit...you never know..

puttmad,

Not yet, but that will be one more little addition to my armoury, along with the stuff in your PM, should I not beat this "bustard" altogether before too long.

Most success so far has been down to Jim's reminder to slacken off on the right hand grip and take the right thumb off altogether.

Rest assure though guys that I shall try all of your suggestions and thank you for your help.