Dreaded Over-the-Top

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c21heel

c21heel

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I have fought the ole dreaded over-the-top move all my golfing life (10 years). I spent most of this time struggling with poor alignment (I'm right handed and aimed too far right) that I think caused me to have to swing over-the-top to get the ball back to target. Unfortunately, I'm having a hard time breaking the habit.

I have worked with "swing under the stick" and "focus on the inside of the ball" with varying degrees of success. And, I've tried focusing on the right shoulder, but tend to hit the ball fat when I do that.

Any other visualations that I can use until Brian gets back to Louisville?
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
1. Make sure your tailbone is AHEAD of your neck bone at imapct

2. Keep your right arm under your left arm from address to the follow-through

3. Start your right elbow toward your right heel
 
G

gumper

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Brian,

I also asked about curing the OTT move recently, and you replied,"...turn the face off of the plane sooner-or right away." Could you please explain what this means in a way similar to the suggestions you made to c21heel? I don't understand what kind of motion you were advocating or how to perform it.
Thank you.

gumper
 
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shootin4par

New
do you have anything on tape that you can reference? Most people who come over the top have a back swing plane where the clubhead comes to the inside to quickly. Once you get here then the arms rise up the chest in the continuation of the backswing. THen since you have momentum, and some other things, you go up and over on the transition.
 
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cdog

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If you understand swinging on plane, if you understand which part of the ball to hit, then you have all the tools needed to stopp swinging OTT.

It just take reps, you have takens years to engrain an OTT move, so it might take a while to engrain an new path.

Do you putt OTT? Do you chip OTT? Do you pitch OTT? Do you punch OTT?
Every vid i have from Brian addresses building a swing from small to large, start small and build.
I had THE worst OTT ever, but once i understannd a few principles, it really wasnt that hard to stop, just took the reps.
 
c21heel

c21heel

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Shootin4par, just the opposite, my backswing tends to go outside. Not by much, but definitely doesn't go to the inside. I verified that with video yesterday. Not that I haven't fought that in the past:)

Cdog, I'll keep puting in the reps. I worked hard on the inside path last night and when I managed to make it happen, the ball took off effortlessly. When I came over the top, I could feel the right shoulder moving out and over instead of down and out. Of course this means back to the range today!
 
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shootin4par

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c21, can you still watch the video? If so watch it and look for where the club head crosses the body on the back swing. for some people it will cross at the ear, others shoulder, others 4 inches below the shoulder.

also, where is the ball in your stance for all your clubs?
 
c21heel

c21heel

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shootin4par, last month the club was crossing my body four inches below my shoulder, which I think was way too flat for me. Espcecially when you compare that with JB Holmes:). I've sinced moved it more towards the shoulder. And, my ball position is just inside the left heel.

I would be interested in hearing what your opinions are regarding 4 inches below, at the shoulders and and at the ears.
 
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shootin4par

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The higher up, the easier it is for dropping in the slot. I fight a flat back swing myself, and when I get it up to the shoulder, the rest of the swing is almost automatic. Between the ear and shoulder is pretty ideal, below the shoulder, very hard to get it to come from the inside. 4 inches below mean a lot of plane shifting. It would have to go flat, then would automatically lift up when you get closer to the top, then you would have to manipulate to get it to drop back down, then come from the inside. Go back with the clubhead coming more upright, then it can fall off and come from the inside much easier. Look at Sergio, he is a great example. So with your video of yesterday where did it come across? In golf it starts with set up, first get that right, then back swing. Percentage wise, How many people who come over the top have a good back swing?
 
c21heel

c21heel

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I really haven't filmed my downswing too much lately as I really want to concentrate on the backswing. The backswing is really hard for me to groove at times, and like you, I feel the backswing really sets the swing up for success. I spent most of January on the backswing and will spend most of February on the Downswing.

Out of curiosity, did you lose some distance when you got overly flat? I lost about 30 yards with my Driver. Initially, I blamed it on cold weather, but when I saw my swing on Video, it was very obvious my backswing was way too flat.
 
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shootin4par

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when I do a flat back swing my clubhead speed is about 105, when it is on the shoulder, I get 115 pretty easily. In my swing when I get too flat I get a lot of throw out action too early because centrifugal force is not delayed but rather applied to soon. When you filmed your back swing the other day, where was the club coming across?
 
c21heel

c21heel

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We must be very similar with regards to the golf swing as I had a launch monitor fit last month and my swing speed ranged from 104 to 109 (very flat backswing). Funny thing is, when my swing was deemed to upright in 2004, I averaged anywhere from 112 to 120.

I re-looked at my video and the club was definitely crossing below my shoulders. And the butt of the club is pointing beyond the target line. Way too flat.
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
The more the right shoulder is off plane on the downswing the more the speed you will lose into the ball. If you have a very flat backswing that doesn't reach the TSP (think hardy one plane like Olin browne) you will actually HAVE TO "steepen" the shaft to reach the TSP and then come over the top to create any kind of acceptable force.

So when you watch those practice swings he makes you will see him be very flat, come over a little, and then swing out to in. Angle hinge that motion and you have a pretty "Decent" fader's motion. Could be better though in my opinion.

So just make sure you are staying on plane with the backswing, check it with plane lasers. Then just bring the hands and shoulders down plane into the ball.
 
c21heel

c21heel

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Focusing on the right shoulder going down certainly helped me today at the range, but I did tend to hit some fat shots. I'm sure I was off plane, but not sure how to work my shoulders on plane at this point with any consistency.
 
c21heel

c21heel

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All my videos that I have taken lately show that I get in a pretty good position at the top of the swing. Sometimes I take it a little too inside, other times I might take it a little too far outside. But, nothing gross. At the top of my swing, my hands are just over my right shoulder with a nice triangle.

However, my downswing continues to be above the plane. On a normal day, my divots are fat and point to the left of my target. On my good days, my divots point slightly left of target. I'm not sure I have ever had a divot that pointed to the right of my target.:(

I'm going to try very hard today to get my divots going right, even if it means the ball goes straight right:D!
 
Michael Finney

Michael Finney

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c21, your divots go left for one reason only - i am sure that by reading this site on a regular basis you probably already know the reason.....
your clubface is too open at impact and separation.......

what can you do to attack this?......review your grip (brian's written article and several of his video shorts), learn the concept of "twistaway" to lessen the amount of "openness" on the back swing, learn the bubba watson "full roll swivel" (in another current thread).......all these things will reduce the "openness" of your clubface......after you have accomplished this, things like impact hands location are easier to achieve and utilize......

and your divots will cease to go left...and your ball will cease to drift right...good luck
 
c21heel

c21heel

New
Mike,

I've had two lessons with Brian where we discussed the grip, twistaway and full roll swivel. I think I still understand the concepts, but you never know. I plan to see Brian again in March.

From what I understand, the downsing goes down and out. For whatever reason, I haven't mastered the down and out portion of the swing. How does "down and out" relate to grip, twistaway and full roll swivel.

If you could explain this, maybe that would eliminate some of my confustion.

Thanks
 
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