Either Coming out of it or "drop kicking" it??

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joeunc

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Lately I have been inconsistent in ball striking and only my short game and putting has saved me to even make the rounds somewhat manageable. I have Confessions of Flipper and NSA 2.0 and have been on the forum for a while reading all I can.

I have been missing with either high push/blocks which are pin high but 20 yds right or fat drop-kicked line drives where the club bottoms out several inches behind the ball and the sole bounces off the deck before the ball.

I had a friend just look at my swing casually and when I hit the high blocks he said it "looked" like I was just standing up through the ball. So then I try to stay more "on top" of it during the swing and it's like I can't get out of my own way and I drop kick it by hitting 4 or 5 inches behind the ball still sightly blocking it. If I try to maintain my angle at address through the swing I feel crowded. When I get that up feeling through the shot I tend to push/block or hit a big hook cause I "felt" it was blocking and my hands would just snap over and hook it. I may be possibly swinging too "far" to right field,,don;t know.

I try to use Manzella Neutral grip,,and my ballflight has always been high,,I have trouble hitting low knock-down shots, but yet can hit a 50yd PW fine with a 3/4 swing right at the stick with a mid trajectory and stop it,,,strange huh,,that my full swing has left me for right now??

Any input form Brian and all the knowledgeable folks here would be appreciated!!

thanks
Joe
 
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tchilds

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I'm there!!

I know those shots well myself...definitely coming too much from the inside, or swinging out to right field...if you don't flip the club it goes right, if you do and don't time it perfectly, then fat hook city...for me what happens is that my hands, arms, or something simply drop from the top, not on purpose, but they do before anything else, namely my lower body has started to move...I feel like that puts me in that position where I can do nothing but go to right field as it were...my distance goes down and I just hit high weak shots when I do hit it solid. Now, as to what the solution is...your guess is as good as mine.
 
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joeunc

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thx,,when I get it timed,,I can hit far and straight..But I want to get that exact timing aspect out of it if some so I can just turn and turn with good fundamentals. But I am stuck now in a myriad of outcomes:

1- pin high blocks (come out of it)
2 - 20 yds too long big hooks (come out of it,,flip the clubface over)
3- drop-kicked line drives about 20 yds short ( stay "down" on it)
4- perfect high/straight right where aiimed ( all things were "timed" right?)

joe
 
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earlymann

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Joeunc,

The worst is the divots that start a foot behind the ball. This is me in a nutshell. The other day, I had an approach shot of 144yards and my divot started about a foot behind the ball, pointing inside out, and the divot was about a foot long itself. I almost wanted to take the divot home.

I don't drop kick the driver like you, but I do hit the ridiculous fat shots with the irons on occasion. My ball position is left of center, too. I almost wanted to change my game completely and start placing the ball right of center.
 
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joeunc

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i don't drop kick the driver,,only irons,,I sweep the driver fine..It is my irons..When I say drop-kick I mean the club hitting the ground behind the ball,,then digging or bouncing and then hitting a weak mid-traj shot. The divot is straight,,it's just started a good 6 inches behind the ball.

joe
 
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earlymann

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joeunc said:
i don't drop kick the driver,,only irons,,I sweep the driver fine..It is my irons..When I say drop-kick I mean the club hitting the ground behind the ball,,then digging or bouncing and then hitting a weak mid-traj shot. The divot is straight,,it's just started a good 6 inches behind the ball.

joe
Click to expand...

Try the "underhand javelin throw" feel.
 
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welshdentist

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I'd also hit some shots at the range with your driver and a Manzella patented "Towel" plane board ;)

I'd bet you hit that towel before impact a few times :cool:
 
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joeunc

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i am sure my plane is probably off some..The driver is fine..It's my full swing iron game that is struggling.
1) when I come up and out of the shot= club stays open = block/pushes
2) when I consciously try to stay "down" and "hit down" on the shot = club bottoms up 6ins behind the ball = low liners after the club skips or digs.
I guess I need to really watch the confessions of a flipper some more to get the hands more forward while maintaining angle.

Hoping Jim or Brian could chime in.

thx much
Joe
 
vjcapron

vjcapron

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Joe, you are swinging too much in-to-out, on too shallow of an approach into the ball.

A swing that is too much inside-out wants to bottom out before the ball. Your natural tendency is that drop-kick duck hook.

Golf is a reaction game. We subconsiously (and sometimes consiously) react to ball flight.

You are reacting to your drop kicks by "standing up" on some shots out of fear of hitting behind the ball and getting yet another drop kick. That's when you block it way right.

You are probably hitting it thin and in the heel, too, when you "stand up on it".

You clearly have a PATH problem and an ANGLE OF ATTACK problem.

Birdie Man, A drop-kick is a FAT shot that is a SHALLOW FAT. The clubhead is approaching the ball on such a shallow angle of attack to the ground that the club bounces off the ground first and then caroms into the ball. This is different than the slicer's STEEP FAT which buries the leading edge of the club into the ground and "lays the sod over the ball".

Joe the club is approaching the ball from too far off of the target line, or, in other words, the club is too "deep" or too far "behind you".

Common reasons the club gets too deep behind you:
#1. Too much axis tilt at address - you may have too much spine tilt away from the target at address
#2. Too flat of a shoulder turn.
#3. Too flat of an arm swing
#4. Rerouting to a flatter plane on the downswing


All of these issues can be resolved with one simple drill. Take your address position about 18 inches from a wall that is behind your heels. Take your backswing without hitting the wall. This will get the clubhead significantly more "UP" and less around, so it can approach the ball from a better position.

You mentioned that you have BM's NSA 2.0 video. You may be too far into NSA mode. Now you may have to learn the Manzella Never Hook Again pattern.
 
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Trane

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My guess is your off plane...

I would bet that you are getting the club too flat or laid off. This has been my problem which I have been working on. I would either do it going back or worst for me, when I start down the butt of the club would point well outside of the target line.

You can hit shanks, pulls, hold the club face open (veritcal type hinging) & block it, fire thru the ball with a steep and deep divot, and have hooks.

If this is what you are doing, just get a camera and watch where the club butt points as you are going back down....use your body pivot to drag that ole heavy club thru the ball. You'll divots should shallow out and you not have the above mentioned problems.

That is if I'm right!
 
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joeunc

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kinda of like in football or say Rugby (better example)..I use the term drop kick to mean the club is bottomnig out behind the ball and then bouncing and "kicking" it forward, only with the irons,,not with driver.
joe
 
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braveheart

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My first reply on this forum. I first want to say that Im impressed by the free exchange of experiences and ready efforts to help others here.

vjcapron, you describe almost exactly what I tend to do. I dropkick with my driver and woods. My shot goes mostly straight and has fairly good distance when this happens. So other golfers say to me, "if you hit it that far after hitting the ground, dont change a thing or " you are coming out of the shot." I know I can do better than that but dont know how to fix it.Had a few instructors but seem to get differing advice. Iron shots I get more of a fat shot and no drop kick, ball of heel most of the time.

Being a new poster and a high handicap player, would the video often mentioned here, NEVER SLICE AGAIN, be a good place to start? Major deviation when off is push/slice and at times, I will shank a few. Ive grown tired of tips and too many swing thoughts so I need a different direction that I hope to find here.
I appreciate any thoughts. Thanks.
 
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hcw

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imho...

braveheart said:
...Being a new poster and a high handicap player, would the video often mentioned here, NEVER SLICE AGAIN, be a good place to start? Major deviation when off is push/slice and at times, I will shank a few. Ive grown tired of tips and too many swing thoughts so I need a different direction that I hope to find here.
I appreciate any thoughts. Thanks.
Click to expand...

...and from similar experience, it sounds like a progression of:

NSA 2.0 -> "The Movie" -> Over and Out -> Confession of a Former Flipper

..would be good w/o too much time between getting each one, esp the 1st three...

-hcw
 
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