endless belt

[tongzilla]

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe


I've already answered above, but will repeat, the amount of #3 has NO bearing on release point. NONE.

Wrong answer. But you are not convinced. So lets take a step back.
Let's just look at the Accumulator #3 by itself. A bigger Acc #3 angle with cause greater Clubhead Travel distance for a given amount of wrist roll. Lay your left forearm on a table with a dowel, then rotate your wrist to see for yourself. I think you would agree with that?
To put it another way, for a given hand speed, the clubhead will travel faster (because of the longer distance it has to travel in the same amount of time) the bigger the Acc #3 angle. Agree?
I will continue once we agree with the above.

 

[tongzilla]

quote:Originally posted by rcandgolf

Since I am new to TGM could someone explain the difference between the #2 and #3 accumlator angles as shown in the pictures Brian posted. To me it seems that they are the same thing. In the face-on picture it is the angle betwenn the left arm and the clubshaft(#2) then in the down the line picture the left arm and hand have rotated 90 degrees and it is still the angle beteen the left arm and the shaft(#3). What am I missing?

Accumulator #2 is the Vertical Motion of the Left Wrist (Cocking and Uncocking). It's also known as the Velocity Accumulator because a small movement in the wrist causes a large movement of the clubhead.

Accumulator #3 is the Rotational Motion of the Left Hand (Turning and Rolling). As the Left Wrist Rolls, the Clubhead Overtakes the Hand due to the angle between the Clubhshaft and the Left Forearm.

As the Left Wrist Uncocks (Accumulator #2), any power left over is trasnferred to Rolling Motion of the Left Wrist (Accumulator #3). Which is why Accumulator #3 is also known as Transfer Power.

EDIT: See this great introductory video on Power Accumulators by Brian: http://homepage.mac.com/brianmanzella/.Movies/manzellashort7.mp4

 

[birdie_man]

Holy ****....look at that shaft in the bottom Hogan picture.

...

....uhhhhhhhh...

Weird.

 

[MizunoJoe]

quote:Originally posted by tongzilla



Let's just look at the Accumulator #3 by itself. A bigger Acc #3 angle with cause greater Clubhead Travel distance for a given amount of wrist roll. Lay your left forearm on a table with a dowel, then rotate your wrist to see for yourself. I think you would agree with that?
To put it another way, for a given hand speed, the clubhead will travel faster (because of the longer distance it has to travel in the same amount of time) the bigger the Acc #3 angle. Agree?
I will continue once we agree with the above.

Wrist roll is not hand speed. Moreover, your experiment with the left forearm on the table indicates clearly that you don't understand what the roll of Accum #3 really is.

 

[tongzilla]

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe


Wrist roll is not hand speed. Moreover, your experiment with the left forearm on the table indicates clearly that you don't understand what the roll of Accum #3 really is.

???

 

[rcandgolf]

Tongzilla...Thanks for the explanation and the video link. Just to make sure I understand.. as a swinger when we reach the release point CF causes the left wrist goes to a LEVEL condition(#2) this still leaves an angle between the shaft and left forearm(#3) which we then roll into impact and follow through. Did I get it?

 

[tongzilla]

quote:Originally posted by rcandgolf

Tongzilla...Thanks for the explanation and the video link. Just to make sure I understand.. as a swinger when we reach the release point CF causes the left wrist goes to a LEVEL condition(#2) this still leaves an angle between the shaft and left forearm(#3) which we then roll into impact and follow through. Did I get it?

You got it rcandgolf . You've described the Swinger's Sequenced Release (Uncock then Roll) and the Throw Out Action induced by the rotating Pivot. After the Left Wrist has done most of its Uncocking during Release, it Swivels (or Rolls) to Impact. Then Horizontal Hinge Action is applied from there to Follow Through by Rolling the Wrists so it stays Vertical to the ground.

 

[MizunoJoe]

quote:Originally posted by rcandgolf

Tongzilla...Thanks for the explanation and the video link. Just to make sure I understand.. as a swinger when we reach the release point CF causes the left wrist goes to a LEVEL condition(#2) this still leaves an angle between the shaft and left forearm(#3) which we then roll into impact and follow through. Did I get it?

Unless you choose to execute the angle roll of Accum #3 before uncocking to the level left wrist position.

 

[MizunoJoe]

quote:Originally posted by tongzilla


After the Left Wrist has done most of its Uncocking during Release, it Swivels (or Rolls) to Impact.

And the angle roll of throwout action also occurs. []

 

[tongzilla]

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

quote:Originally posted by rcandgolf

Tongzilla...Thanks for the explanation and the video link. Just to make sure I understand.. as a swinger when we reach the release point CF causes the left wrist goes to a LEVEL condition(#2) this still leaves an angle between the shaft and left forearm(#3) which we then roll into impact and follow through. Did I get it?

Unless you choose to execute the angle roll of Accum #3 before uncocking to the level left wrist position.

Joe, the Accumulators are always Released in this order: #4, #1, #2, #3.
Roll (#3) cannot occur before Uncocking (#2).
However, there may be sufficient Overlap of the Accumulators so that the Roll begins as soon as the Left Wrist has started Uncocking. Please refer to 6-M-1.

 

[golfie]

quote:Originally posted by tongzilla

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

quote:Originally posted by rcandgolf

Tongzilla...Thanks for the explanation and the video link. Just to make sure I understand.. as a swinger when we reach the release point CF causes the left wrist goes to a LEVEL condition(#2) this still leaves an angle between the shaft and left forearm(#3) which we then roll into impact and follow through. Did I get it?

Unless you choose to execute the angle roll of Accum #3 before uncocking to the level left wrist position.

Joe, the Accumulators are always Released in this order: #4, #1, #2, #3.
Roll (#3) cannot occur before Uncocking (#2).
However, there may be sufficient Overlap of the Accumulators so that the Roll begins as soon as the Left Wrist has started Uncocking. Please refer to 6-M-1.

There is always overlap unless the left arm is on-plane. However uncock and roll is a good feel for learning the motion. Sorry for picking this nit but I get tired of hearing this incorrect statement.

 

[hiroshiro]

quote:Originally posted by birdie_man

Holy ****....look at that shaft in the bottom Hogan picture.

...

....uhhhhhhhh...

Weird.

I believe that the apparent shaft bend is an artifact of a too slow shutter. I doubt that even the great Hogan could bend the grip that much . If it isn't an artifact, then "holy throwaway!"

hiro

 

[birdie_man]

Ya man....something weird's going on there.

...

It ain't Throwaway tho....he hasn't Released anything....the shaft's just funky.

 

[MizunoJoe]

quote:Originally posted by tongzilla

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

Unless you choose to execute the angle roll of Accum #3 before uncocking to the level left wrist position.

Joe, the Accumulators are always Released in this order: #4, #1, #2, #3.
Roll (#3) cannot occur before Uncocking (#2).
However, there may be sufficient Overlap of the Accumulators so that the Roll begins as soon as the Left Wrist has started Uncocking. Please refer to 6-M-1.

I said "before uncocking to the level left wrist position[/b]". I didn't say just "before uncocking".

The roll of Accum #3 can commence anytime after uncocking begins.

 

[tongzilla]

I don't understand why you have to introduce the phrase "angle roll". What you've described about the Rolling Motion initiated before the Left Wrist has reached its Level position happens on almost all strokes.

 

[tongzilla]

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

quote:Originally posted by tongzilla



Let's just look at the Accumulator #3 by itself. A bigger Acc #3 angle with cause greater Clubhead Travel distance for a given amount of wrist roll. Lay your left forearm on a table with a dowel, then rotate your wrist to see for yourself. I think you would agree with that?
To put it another way, for a given hand speed, the clubhead will travel faster (because of the longer distance it has to travel in the same amount of time) the bigger the Acc #3 angle. Agree?
I will continue once we agree with the above.

Wrist roll is not hand speed. Moreover, your experiment with the left forearm on the table indicates clearly that you don't understand what the roll of Accum #3 really is.

Joe, I never said wrist roll is hand speed. My "experiment" with the left forearm on the table shows the effect on Clubhead Travel by increasing the Accumulator #3 angle. I then proposed that if you keep hand speed and rolling constant, you would get a faster clubhead speed. I would appreciate it if you can try to understand my posts before jumping in to accuse me of not understanding.

 

[MizunoJoe]

quote:Originally posted by tongzilla

I don't understand why you have to introduce the phrase "angle roll".

I was pretty sure that you don't. Throwout IS "angle roll".

 

[MizunoJoe]

quote:Originally posted by tongzilla

My "experiment" with the left forearm on the table shows the effect on Clubhead Travel by increasing the Accumulator #3 angle. I then proposed that if you keep hand speed and rolling constant, you would get a faster clubhead speed. I would appreciate it if you can try to understand my posts before jumping in to accuse me of not understanding.

Your "experiment" proves it!

 

[tongzilla]

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

quote:Originally posted by tongzilla

My "experiment" with the left forearm on the table shows the effect on Clubhead Travel by increasing the Accumulator #3 angle. I then proposed that if you keep hand speed and rolling constant, you would get a faster clubhead speed. I would appreciate it if you can try to understand my posts before jumping in to accuse me of not understanding.

Your "experiment" proves it!

Are you going to elaborate? Or is that all you are going to say?