Epiphany??? (clubface control/pp3)

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Bill Miracle

Bill Miracle

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Wow! Had a surreal experience yesterday. I've really been struggling with my 3 wood lately. I am not slicing anything but the 3 wood. And, it has been so bad that I have been over compensating, which is producing all kinds of unplayable shots....spraying all over the place...hard slices, hard pulls. No matter what I was doing, the best I could get is hard hard fade outa this club (and the 5 wood).

So, I was doing some chip/pitching and started to get the feeling of the clubface being controlled through the ball. While I wasn't using pp3 to do anything, I was getting a sensation of where the clubface was based on feedback from pp3.
What was cool about it...it was almost as an image in my mind.

So, when I was out on the range, I started working towards getting this feeling for all my clubs....and I'll be damned, I started stroking the 3 and the 5 wood like never before. It was almost like I could see the clubface coming through the ball in my mind. When I did hit a bad one, I could sense the face was bad. A 6th sense!

So, is this something is a result of my wild, teenage, lsd days - or - is this something that develops as one improves in their golfing skills? Either way, I like it and hope it holds up over time.
 
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Robbohank

New
Mind in your hands

Bill Miracle said:
Wow! Had a surreal experience yesterday. I've really been struggling with my 3 wood lately. I am not slicing anything but the 3 wood. And, it has been so bad that I have been over compensating, which is producing all kinds of unplayable shots....spraying all over the place...hard slices, hard pulls. No matter what I was doing, the best I could get is hard hard fade outa this club (and the 5 wood).

So, I was doing some chip/pitching and started to get the feeling of the clubface being controlled through the ball. While I wasn't using pp3 to do anything, I was getting a sensation of where the clubface was based on feedback from pp3.
What was cool about it...it was almost as an image in my mind.

So, when I was out on the range, I started working towards getting this feeling for all my clubs....and I'll be damned, I started stroking the 3 and the 5 wood like never before. It was almost like I could see the clubface coming through the ball in my mind. When I did hit a bad one, I could sense the face was bad. A 6th sense!

So, is this something is a result of my wild, teenage, lsd days - or - is this something that develops as one improves in their golfing skills? Either way, I like it and hope it holds up over time.
Click to expand...

BM,

I'm gonna guess that you have entered that magical yet often never REALLY experienced area of TRULY having your mind in your hands. I think it's a cornerstone of TGM, yet it's seldom achieved. The concept of the left hand being the clubface and the right hand the clubhead is so simple that it almost defies logic, thus golfers never give it a chance. Let's see.... my clubhead is moving at 100+ mph with a driver while my hands (which define what that clubhead and clubface does) move at a fraction of that speed. Wonder which I should focus on to get the desired ball flight?

Robbo
 
bts

bts

New
Lag.

Robbohank said:
BM,

I'm gonna guess that you have entered that magical yet often never REALLY experienced area of TRULY having your mind in your hands. I think it's a cornerstone of TGM, yet it's seldom achieved. The concept of the left hand being the clubface and the right hand the clubhead is so simple that it almost defies logic, thus golfers never give it a chance. Let's see.... my clubhead is moving at 100+ mph with a driver while my hands (which define what that clubhead and clubface does) move at a fraction of that speed. Wonder which I should focus on to get the desired ball flight?

Robbo
Click to expand...
"Wonder which I should focus on to get the desired ball flight?"

what else, except "LAG"?
 
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tobell

New
Bill,

80% of my practice time is devoted to cultivating educated hands with the wedge around the practice green. Specifically work on developing your awareness and sensitivity to the hosel working around the sweet spot and the plane of the stroke--take that to the range and work it thru the bag. Educated hands are the doorway to better golf, and PP#3 is window thru which you can educate those hands. Feel the sweet spot as the longitudinal center of gravity of the club--notice how that center of gravity is constantly trying seek an in-line condition with the shaft. Observe the hosel/sweetspot behavior to different hinge actions-- always keep the sweetspot onplane and allow the hosel to rotate around the onplane sweetspot--never ever visa-versa.
 
Bill Miracle

Bill Miracle

New
tobell said:
Bill,

Observe the hosel/sweetspot behavior to different hinge actions-- always keep the sweetspot onplane and allow the hosel to rotate around the onplane sweetspot--never ever visa-versa.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply tobell. I didn't quite understand the hosel rotating around the sweetspot concept. I thought the clubface containing the sweetspot rotated around the hosel?
 
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tobell

New
Bill,

Very important, hosel around the sweetspot, not sweetspot around hosel. Sweetspot around hosel equals all kinds of trouble, including the dreaded s... word. PP#3 can be tuned to equate to the sweetspot, work on that sensitivity, make pp3 your sweetspot.
 
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Dustin

New
I really do not understand hosel around sweet spot, and not sweetspot around hosel. Can anyone explain how to better understand this concept?
 
KnighT

KnighT

New
I think the reason is because the clubshaft rotates around the sweet spot. Since the hosel connects the shaft to the clubhead, the hosel is rotating. I am not sure how this works in the real world. Maybe a pure swing takes full advantage of this.
 
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puttmad

New
Sweet spot rotation..
Pick up a long iron, hold it at the top of the grip betwen the finger and thumb of (say) your left hand. let the club hang vertically..
Now tap the clubface at the toe end and watch how the club rotates.
Then tap the clubface right next to the hosel..

If you watch carefully (and you can also "feel" this in the fingers holding the club) you will see the rotation is around the sweet spot and not the hosel as you expect..
If the club rotated around the hosel there would be no rotation when you hit it by the hosel...make sense?...:)

If you draw a line between top of the grip and the sweet spot, that is the center of rotation, everything, shaft hosel etc, rotates with that as the centerline...
 
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tobell

New
Longitudinal COG

puttmad said:
Sweet spot rotation..


If you draw a line between top of the grip and the sweet spot, that is the center of rotation, everything, shaft hosel etc, rotates with that as the centerline...
Click to expand...

Well stated Puttmad. I've taken an 1/8 inch dowel and run it from PP3 to the sweetspot and practiced different waggles and hinge actions...very interesting.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Tobell...

...It IS very interesting, if you know what I mean. ;)

But, in the real world, practice like you are talking about is pretty much USELESS.

The "hosel rotating around the sweetspot" is ABSOLUTELY what happens, but as an idea for a golfer to think about to produce a desired mechanic--give a few thousand more lessons and you'll see what I mean--it is pretty darn goofy.

BECAUSE the sweetspot is actually CLOSING relative to the shaft on the downswing.

So, practice with your dowel all you want, but at BrianManzella.com we DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS AS AN IDEA.

As a concept, toBell, Homer was right, this is why THE CLUBFACE SHOULD close (the hosel rotating around the sweetspot), but as an idea, I have seen golfers doing ALL SORTS OF THINGS that frankly, NONE of my students have trouble with.

What Bill Miracle experienced was the SENSATION of a VERTICAL (square to him) clubface at impact ON HIS #3 PRESSUE POINT.

Open makes the #3 feel somewhat under, and Closed make it seem somewhat on top.

You, "toBell" will say "Homer said not to monitor the clubface with the #3 pressure point."

But I say, to some, it is an Epiphany!
 
Bill Miracle

Bill Miracle

New
Brian Manzella said:
..
What Bill Miracle experienced was the SENSATION of a VERTICAL (square to him) clubface at impact ON HIS #3 PRESSURE POINT.

Open makes the #3 feel somewhat under, and Closed make it seem somewhat on top.
...
Click to expand...

After reading my post written in excitement, I think I miscommunicated.....

It was as though I could feel and see the clubface correctly turning through the ball but also feeling what I assume is the correct feel lag on PP3. Actually, this was a separate but united feeling. The ball flight was long and straight

Curious though....Brian, if I was really feeling a vertical club face, wouldn't the ball flight have been higher and to the right?
 
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tobell

New
Brian,

Agree with all your points!!! I would say for some, including me, monitoring the sweetspot with PP3 works--afterall your mind must stay in the hands to accomplish this. I've only used the dowel to develop and enhance awareness and sensitivity in pp3. From personal experience only, I'm not an instructor, developing, refining, and tuning the precise correlation between PP#3 and the sweetspot is more specific than the more broad correlation of PP#3 and the clubface.

Ok, Homer tells us to monitor the hands, not the club, however we can "educate" the hands correct? That is all I'm driving at with the dowel concept, to better refine the understanding and develop the feel of the sweetspot via pp3.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
What I am trying to say....

tobell said:
From personal experience only, I'm not an instructor, developing, refining, and tuning the precise correlation between PP#3 and the sweetspot is more specific than the more broad correlation of PP#3 and the clubface.

Ok, Homer tells us to monitor the hands, not the club, however we can "educate" the hands correct? That is all I'm driving at with the dowel concept, to better refine the understanding and develop the feel of the sweetspot via pp3.
Click to expand...

I have seen all the drills, I have tried all the drills, and in the real world of teaching, they are almost useless. they might help 1 golfer in 100.

The "Hinge Action" concept is USELESS for most golfers.

Golf may be a game for thinkers, but they don't like to think much.

No roll, reverse roll, and full roll ARE doable concepts, but believe it or not, something that even MENTIONING will MESS UP some of the very best players.

That's where I—and this site—and my videos—come in.

Making SENSE out of G.O.L.F. and Golf for NORMAL people.

:cool:
 
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tobell

New
Brian,

I'm always learning from you and your site and I would likely do more harm than good as an instructor--just thought I'd share something that was useful for me.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Whew!

So to sum it all up,

Where the "Hooked" or "Triggered" Right Forefinger rests against the club, is the #3 Pressure Point.

Feeling what the sweetspot FEELS LIKE on this spot when the club is in different positions, is a way to monitor the clubface.
 
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