Face or path

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ggsjpc

ggsjpc

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if you only had these two to choose from, which is more important to controlling the ball?

i think face.
 
Bronco Billy

Bronco Billy

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One MUST Control Face and Control Path to Control Ball Flight....

Face Control Implies an Infinite Number of Paths.... Path Control Implies an Infinite Number of Faces.... Therefore Ball Flight Control Implies Face Control and Path Control..... QED.... Have a Great Day With Your New Found Knowledge......:)
 
J

Jon Hardesty

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That is not what ggsjpc asked in his post. He asked which is more important in controlling the ball. With the clubface being about 85% of ballflight, I guess he got his answer, no?
 
H

holeout

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libro said:
That is not what ggsjpc asked in his post. He asked which is more important in controlling the ball. With the clubface being about 85% of ballflight, I guess he got his answer, no?
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Agreed. The really good fade player will (I'm guesstimating here) swing anywhere from 2-5 or 6 degrees outside-in, but have the face aimed around .5-1 degree closed consistently. Aim that sucker up about 5 yards left of target, and you're hitting it within birdie range all day.

As long as you know you're not going to double-cross (swing right on one shot then left on another), face control is mucho more important. If you've got the face 1 degree closed, swinging 2 degrees left versus 7 degrees left is far more controllable than, say, swinging 1 degree left while having the face be 3 degrees closed once and 2 degrees open another. Ball flight is consistently in one direction the first way, all over the place the second.

Do I have those numbers about right Brian, Jim, or Kevin?
 
Bronco Billy

Bronco Billy

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So What....His Question is UnAnswerable.....

libro said:
That is not what ggsjpc asked in his post. He asked which is more important in controlling the ball. With the clubface being about 85% of ballflight, I guess he got his answer, no?
Click to expand...

It is Like asking what is More Important in a Vector???? Magnitude or Direction.... They are Equally Important and can NOT Exist Apart....It is a Coupled System.... Ie. You Can't Have One WithOut the Other.... Have a Great Day With Your New Found Knowledge....:)
 
mjstrong

mjstrong

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Yikes

I REALLY hate to agree with BB on this one, but I do. We know that face is more important in controlling starting direction, and the relationship with its path is important in controlling the spin vector.

However, if you said that having great clubface control meant that you had the ability to adjust the face to your path (ie, close it a bit if your path was inwards, open it a little if your path was outwards), then you could probably get it around the course alright.
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Both are important, but Face is the predominant factor. Just like anything that has a weighted average in its calculation; both are needed but the main factor is the one with the highest weight
 
Richie3Jack

Richie3Jack

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Great question.

I thought about this for awhile. I leaned towards face because all great players are great at controlling the face. Then I leaned towards path because often time the path correlates to where the face is pointing. So a golfer who comes over the top is likely to get that face pointing left But, if they have poor path control, they may be swinging slighly inside-to-out in relation to the angle of the face and thus the pull hook and pull fade can come into play.

If I had to choose, I'd stick with face. Not only because of direction, but because of loft angle as well. And probably if you're great at controlling the face you can control it in relation to the path and hit the ball very accurately on a consistent basis.




3JACK
 
ggsjpc

ggsjpc

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Bronco Billy said:
It is Like asking what is More Important in a Vector???? Magnitude or Direction.... They are Equally Important and can NOT Exist Apart....It is a Coupled System.... Ie. You Can't Have One WithOut the Other.... Have a Great Day With Your New Found Knowledge....:)
Click to expand...

Bronco Billy said:
It is Like asking what is More Important in a Vector???? Magnitude or Direction.... They are Equally Important and can NOT Exist Apart....It is a Coupled System.... Ie. You Can't Have One WithOut the Other.... Have a Great Day With Your New Found Knowledge....:)
Click to expand...


ok. so for those of you that can't answer a question of opinion. If a player had control over the face, is it easier to learn path control or if a player had control over the path, is it easier to learn face control?
 
Steve Greffen

Steve Greffen

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ggsjpc said:
ok. so for those of you that can't answer a question of opinion. If a player had control over the face, is it easier to learn path control or if a player had control over the path, is it easier to learn face control?
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Probably still an opinion question here as some other factors would make it easier to learn a concept over an other but my opinion would be to get the face control first or as you say if you have the face control already the path would be easier to learn. Just look at how many can trace a straight plane line with video but when it comes to have control of their face they get all screwed up. In fact having control of the face may actually help correct ones path as the reason many swing off plane is due to a poor face position.
 
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Guitar Hero

Guitar Hero

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ggsjpc said:
ok. so for those of you that can't answer a question of opinion. If a player had control over the face, is it easier to learn path control or if a player had control over the path, is it easier to learn face control?
Click to expand...

Club Face control is harder for most golfers but both can be difficult for some golfers. During the first lesson I test the golfer in both areas and start working from there. I see many golfers that have a little over the top move and with some I won’t change the path but work on the club face and axis tilt.
 
starretj

starretj

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The problem with deciding between face or path depends on how variable is the one you don't control well. In my opinion, you need to control the one that gives you a consistent ball flight and then improve from there. I have never seen a good golfer whose ball could go either direction. I have seen guys who learned to score with some ugly swings, but produced a ball that was either always going to draw to hook or fade to slice.
 
J

jpeck

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ggsjpc said:
ok. so for those of you that can't answer a question of opinion. If a player had control over the face, is it easier to learn path control or if a player had control over the path, is it easier to learn face control?
Click to expand...

If the clubface is accepted as causing a greater variance in ballflight from swing to swing, then gaining control over the face will make it easier to learn path.
 
Richie3Jack

Richie3Jack

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libro said:
Basically, if a player can learn to control the face they will adjust the path accordingly to hit better shots.
Click to expand...

That's what I was thinking.

Plus, if you can control the face, the initial direction will start out the way you want it. If I had to chose between initial direction or curvature, I'd take initial direction.

I used to play golf with a guy who played some mini-tours about 12 years ago. Very unorthodox golf swing and he wasn't much for practice. However, he was a pretty darn accurate golfer. He would usually hit a fade, but there were plenty of days where he would wake up and start hitting a big draw on the range and he would just play the draw and shoot a few under par or so without breaking a sweat.

Looking back now, I think he was just very good at controlling the face.




3JACK
 
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