Facts re Impact

[mandrin]

But.... There is NO Significant Gain in Distance with a Heavy/Power Hit.... But With a Heavy/Power Hit the ClubFace Slows Down a lot Less During Ball Contact Time Duration and Thus Stays on the Clubface Longer..... Have a Great Day With Your New Found Knowledge......

Ps. The Heavy/Power Hit is Superior Because of the Extended Time Duration on the ClubFace.... This Allows the Golfer More FeedBack for Controling FUTURE Shots.....Name a World Class Player that Does Not Have a Heavy/Power Hit????

Bronco Billy tries constantly in various ways to attract attention - his last post being particularly noteworthy for being stark naked way out in left field. Trying to educate Bronco Billy is like trying to lift oneself against gravity pulling on one's socks. However his post made be think of posting some interesting experimental data.

From the paper “Is the Impact of a Golf Ball Hertzian ? ”, published by Prof I. R. Jones in 'Science and Golf IV ', I have taken the experimental data regarding both the amplitude and duration of the force pulses which are generated when a golf ball impacts against a plane solid surface at the full range of velocities normally encountered in the game of golf for one particular make of golf ball. The data concern impact speeds from putting and tiny shots around the green to full range normal golf shots.

​

Notice from Figs 1 and 2 that with increasing impact velocity the dwell time DECREASES whilst simultaneously the impact force INCREASES. Notice also that from a tiny putting stroke to a high speed driver swing the impact dwell time barely changes by a factor of 2 whilst there being nevertheless a difference in magnitude in associated impact force of about 50 times. Those still strongly holding on to their beliefs of heavy hit, sustaining line of compression, etc., etc., will have likely some interesting food for thought.

 

[mb6606]

Understood.
Yet when I hit a putt I feel no "heavy hit" and with a wood I do ?
When I swing a wood and mishit I do not feel the heavy hit?
Maybe the "heavy hit" feel/concept is mis-understood?

 

[niblick1]

I predict that a thread about enjoying your new found knowledge will appear very soon. Or one with a quotation and a period as a reply.

 

[mandrin]

Understood.
Yet when I hit a putt I feel no "heavy hit" and with a wood I do ?
When I swing a wood and mishit I do not feel the heavy hit?
Maybe the "heavy hit" feel/concept is mis-understood?

mb6606,

Impact is about 400 microseconds. Our reaction time is about 300,000 microseconds. We are just simply not equipped to sense, feel or act commensurable with the very short time scale of the impact dwell time.

Whatever we feel has to extend over enough time to be registered by the brain. A mishit in golf will lead to an torquing effect lasting longer than impact duration itself.

To find out what exactly constitutes a "heavy hit" you have to ask Bronco Billy. He seemingly knows very precisely what it is all about.

 

[Brian Manzella]

???

Understood.
Yet when I hit a putt I feel no "heavy hit" and with a wood I do ?
When I swing a wood and mishit I do not feel the heavy hit?
Maybe the "heavy hit" feel/concept is mis-understood?

The "Heavy" you are feeling—and I have said this dozens of times—is the shaft was bend forward and you had been LOSING LAG PRESSURE, and then at impact, the head is slowed and the shaft bends the other way, and you REGAIN THE FEELING OF LAG PRESSURE!!!!

That's it.

There is NO HEAVY HIT.

Book Literalists can try to resist the book being wrong—again, but it is a myth, and the feel of it, is an illusion.

 

[mandrin]

I predict that a thread about enjoying your new found knowledge will appear very soon. Or one with a quotation and a period as a reply.

niblick1,

Some are not after knowledge but simply needing attention. It is inoffensive but not very mature.

 

[Bronco Billy]

Nice Study... But It Does Not Disprove My Statement...

Bronco Billy tries constantly in various ways to attract attention - his last post being particularly noteworthy for being stark naked way out in left field. Trying to educate Bronco Billy is like trying to lift oneself against gravity pulling on one's socks. However his post made be think of posting some interesting experimental data.

From the paper “Is the Impact of a Golf Ball Hertzian ? ”, published by Prof I. R. Jones in 'Science and Golf IV ', I have taken the experimental data regarding both the amplitude and duration of the force pulses which are generated when a golf ball impacts against a plane solid surface at the full range of velocities normally encountered in the game of golf for one particular make of golf ball. The data concern impact speeds from putting and tiny shots around the green to full range normal golf shots.

​

Notice from Figs 1 and 2 that with increasing impact velocity the dwell time DECREASES whilst simultaneously the impact force INCREASES. Notice also that from a tiny putting stroke to a high speed driver swing the impact dwell time barely changes by a factor of 2 whilst there being nevertheless a difference in magnitude in associated impact force of about 50 times. Those still strongly holding on to their beliefs of heavy hit, sustaining line of compression, etc., etc., will have likely some interesting food for thought.

You are Firing GolfBalls at a Static Blank Wall...... The GolfBalls are in Free Flight and Therefore are Slowing Down Before and as They Impact the Wall... Put a Rocket Engine on the GolfBall and the Results would Prove my Statement is Correct.... Ie... The Golf Club is Powered to and Through the GolfBall Impact Zone which Yields My Valid Analysis.... Keep Workin On It.... You Will Eventually Get It....

 

[mandrin]

The "Heavy" you are feeling—and I have said this dozens of times—is the shaft was bend forward and you had been LOSING LAG PRESSURE, and then at impact, the head is slowed and the shaft bends the other way, and you REGAIN THE FEELING OF LAG PRESSURE!!!!

Brian,

One can load or bend a shaft from the top but very soon in the down swing there will be a rapidly increasing centrifugal torque acting on the clubhead, due to the offset of the clubhead's com re to the shaft. It is this large torque which subsequently strives to bend the club shaft forward. It will be maximum at the bottom of the swing. Impact itself will not alter that situation very much as experiments have shown.

Can you perhaps explain your idea on what people seemingly feel as a heavy hit a bit more.

 

[Bronco Billy]

A Mishit is a Fat Hit.... A Heavy Hit is NOT a Fat Hit....

Understood.
Yet when I hit a putt I feel no "heavy hit" and with a wood I do ?
When I swing a wood and mishit I do not feel the heavy hit?
Maybe the "heavy hit" feel/concept is mis-understood?

.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Mandrin, that was one of your more easily understood examples. Interesting data, thanks

 

[Brian Manzella]

You are Firing GolfBalls at a Static Blank Wall...... The GolfBalls are in Free Flight and Therefore are Slowing Down Before and as They Impact the Wall... Put a Rocket Engine on the GolfBall and the Results would Prove my Statement is Correct.... Ie... The Golf Club is Powered to and Through the GolfBall Impact Zone which Yields My Valid Analysis.... Keep Workin On It.... You Will Eventually Get It....

Bronco,

You are dead wrong.

Stick to what you know.

 

[Brian Manzella]

20/20

Can you perhaps explain your idea on what people seemingly feel as a heavy hit a bit more.

 

[mandrin]

You are Firing GolfBalls at a Static Blank Wall......

The GolfBalls are in Free Flight and Therefore are Slowing Down Before and as They Impact the Wall...

Put a Rocket Engine on the GolfBall and the Results would Prove my Statement is Correct.... Ie...

The Golf Club is Powered to and Through the GolfBall Impact Zone which Yields My Valid Analysis....

Keep Workin On It....

You Will Eventually Get It....

Bronco Billy,

Your post is true to your character, funny perhaps, but not really worth analyzing too much for its scientific contents.

You see Bronco Billy, you are actually telling me with your post that the venerable Prof Jones, an expert in this domain, is publishing rubbish. Not very serious and appropriate as argument.

Let me just simply state categorically that a golf ball hitting an obstacle or an obstacle hitting a golf ball, with same relative impact velocities, is identical, re. impact phenomena.

For my education would you mind defining what actually constitutes a heavy hit. I have an open mind and anxious to use and test any serious information you might furnish re to heavy hit.

 

[Bronco Billy]

Here Ya Go...........

Bronco Billy,

Your post is true to your character, funny perhaps, but not really worth analyzing too much for its scientific contents.

You see Bronco Billy, you are actually telling me with your post that the venerable Prof Jones, an expert in this domain, is publishing rubbish. Not very serious and appropriate as argument.

Let me just simply state categorically that a golf ball hitting an obstacle or an obstacle hitting a golf ball, with same relative impact velocities, is identical, re. impact phenomena.

For my education would you mind defining what actually constitutes a heavy hit. I have an open mind and anxious to use and test any serious information you might furnish re to heavy hit.

Heavy/Power Hit

 

[mandrin]

Interesting stills

Brian,
The shafts for irons don't bend very much. There appears to be indeed a small forward bend just prior to impact and quite a substantial backward one, just past impact, due to friction force caused by contact with the mat. Nice to have these stills. The rather large backward bend in the shaft past impact surprises me a bit but then again one can't argue with facts.

 

[mandrin]

Mandrin, that was one of your more easily understood examples. Interesting data, thanks

Jim,

Correct data and information is an essential ingredient for keeping on course. Glad to have posted some useful information. It is indeed remarkable how fast this forum has changed and getting almost addicted to the real stuff.

 

[mandrin]

Heavy/Power Hit

Bronco Billy,

I take it from your post that you have been simply stirring up some dust, as usual, without really knowing what it is all about.

However just in case some useful idea might crop up please keep me informed, open minded, I like to look closely at any of your ideas on the subject.

 

[tobell]

sustaining line of compression

Sustaining the line of compression is really monitoring shaft deflection.

 

[Bronco Billy]

Looking Forward to You Proving This Statement Wrong... So I Can Be Born Again...

Bronco Billy,

I take it from your post that you have been simply stirring up some dust, as usual, without really knowing what it is all about.

However just in case some useful idea might crop up please keep me informed, open minded, I like to look closely at any of your ideas on the subject.

This Statement...

 

[holeout]

This Statement...

Bronco,

Can you prove it right?