Facts re Impact
- Thread starter mandrin
- Start date
- Status
mandrin
New
mpro,
Very interesting question.
Tightly connecting the bat at one end or suspending in mid air results in quite different vibration modes for the bat. However impact itself would not change very much. The inertial resistance of the bat takes the blow of the impact before the vibrations have time to really fully develop. Think of an impulsive loading of a resonance system.In golf the erroneous misconception about loading the shaft, such as claimed by TGM and elsewhere, is quite likely due to referring to the behavior of the shaft tightly clamped in a vise. However the soft bio-mechanical tissues of the hand make the shaft behave quite different in a golf swing. A matter of mechanical impedance mismatching.
ok, help me out here. So Heavy hit doesn't technically exist? If so, then what exactly are we feeling when we have what "feels like" a heavy hit and the ball is making that great sizzle sound?
Personally for me, I get the heavy hit feeling not so so much from having great lag, but my angle of approach is much steeper and more down on the ball. I lose the feeling when I start getting a shallower approach.
Personally for me, I get the heavy hit feeling not so so much from having great lag, but my angle of approach is much steeper and more down on the ball. I lose the feeling when I start getting a shallower approach.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
NO CHANCE AT ALL for your reaction time to be less than .2
NONE.
If you could react faster, the club still has to be moved through the small and large muscles.
Geez....
NONE.
If you could react faster, the club still has to be moved through the small and large muscles.
Geez....
Reaction Time
"If you could react faster, the club still has to be moved through the small and large muscles.
Geez...."
Why would it have to be moved through large muscles. After googling proprioceptor reaction time, the very first site I get (see above) indicates that touch reaction times are even quicker than I thought.
.20 is a lifetime in the golf swing for gosh sakes, and it is a huge percentage less than .33
The hands are alive baby!!!!
"If you could react faster, the club still has to be moved through the small and large muscles.
Geez...."
Why would it have to be moved through large muscles. After googling proprioceptor reaction time, the very first site I get (see above) indicates that touch reaction times are even quicker than I thought.
.20 is a lifetime in the golf swing for gosh sakes, and it is a huge percentage less than .33
The hands are alive baby!!!!
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Tom Bartlett
Administrator
mandrin
New
Tom,
Even better - if someone with no brain can still play golf imagine the bright future for those who have still some brain at their disposal.
Tom,
Even better - if someone with no brain can still play golf imagine the bright future for those who have still some brain at their disposal.
Depends on if they let it get in the way or not.
Last edited:
trained speed
I can't get the links to work, but please google the subject of the lady that averaged typing 150 words per minute through her career.
some very simple math. 150 words every 60 seconds. How many letters in the average word? I don't know, but I will say 4.5. Then add in all the spaces, commas, periods, capitals, etc, and with her that might add 2 letters per word, so 6.5 letters per word.
6.5 x 150 = 975 that's 975 individual actions her fingers must make. Am I correct? Please correct me if I'm estimating wrong. No need to get vile about it.
60 divided by 975 = 0.061538461 finger actions per second I carried it out extra places for Mandrin For Tom, .06 per second.
Now I don't know for sure how that absolves into reaction time, BUT, her fingers still had to move one after the other, in order, reacting to each other.
And there is a whole world of ways to think about this, and through analogy apply it to the golf swing.
If Mandrin could just figure out how much less smart the rest of us are compared to him, then he could really entertain us. And I mean this in a nice way.
I would suggest Mandrin...that you begin by reading "Parallel Universes" by Fred Alan Wolf and studying the analogies he uses in his book. They are wonderful analogies.
Thank you and good night
dp
please forgive inconsequential errors.
I can't get the links to work, but please google the subject of the lady that averaged typing 150 words per minute through her career.
some very simple math. 150 words every 60 seconds. How many letters in the average word? I don't know, but I will say 4.5. Then add in all the spaces, commas, periods, capitals, etc, and with her that might add 2 letters per word, so 6.5 letters per word.
6.5 x 150 = 975 that's 975 individual actions her fingers must make. Am I correct? Please correct me if I'm estimating wrong. No need to get vile about it.
60 divided by 975 = 0.061538461 finger actions per second I carried it out extra places for Mandrin
For Tom, .06 per second.Now I don't know for sure how that absolves into reaction time, BUT, her fingers still had to move one after the other, in order, reacting to each other.
And there is a whole world of ways to think about this, and through analogy apply it to the golf swing.
If Mandrin could just figure out how much less smart the rest of us are compared to him, then he could really entertain us. And I mean this in a nice way.
I would suggest Mandrin...that you begin by reading "Parallel Universes" by Fred Alan Wolf and studying the analogies he uses in his book. They are wonderful analogies.
Thank you and good night
dp
please forgive inconsequential errors.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
"DP3"
Are you trying to say that you can adjust tej clubhead and clubface during impact?
Yes or No?
[SIDE NOTE: Wouldn't these discussions be better if folks didn't hide behind screennames?]
Are you trying to say that you can adjust tej clubhead and clubface during impact?
Yes or No?
Brian,
Do your experimenting with care, cause if you come up with noticeable bending for the shaft during impact hitting with a driver not touching the ground, some explaining has to be done.
Cochran et al. in their rather convincing experiments used a free moving hinge in the shaft close to the clubhead and even so found virtually no deflection of the shaft during impact.
mandrin,
Your post inspired me to go check out that passage again in "The Search for the Perfect Swing" since on my first reading many years ago I thought it was one of the most interesting things in the book. Chapter 22 is full of info related to this current discussion - interesting that their conclusions are still being discounted by many. Anyway, I see they mention the hinge doesn't shift backward in a large way during the impact, but from their images or text I can't tell if the shaft deflected backward at impact during their test. From some of the video I've seen of driver swings, it appears that the the impact with the ball causes some rearward deflection of the shaft, although I would agree that the ground impact probably would have a much bigger effect on this. I'd be interested to see what Brian's test showed with his new camera.
Jay
Brian Manzella
Administrator
I think DP3 has a good point although he is wrong about human reaction time.Human reaction time varies but it's generally in the 0.3 second range.
But human reaction time has nothing to do with feeling impact if you think about it.We are not reacting to impact,we are feeling it.
Mandrins mathematics is probably very sound but he should not be using reaction time.
Still,the ball is long gone before we feel the strike.This fact has not changed
But human reaction time has nothing to do with feeling impact if you think about it.We are not reacting to impact,we are feeling it.
Mandrins mathematics is probably very sound but he should not be using reaction time.
Still,the ball is long gone before we feel the strike.This fact has not changed
mandrin
New
I am not using reaction time in my opening post about impact dwell time and peak force. However I made further on in the thread a simple common sense observation -
We are just simply not equipped to sense, feel or act commensurable with the very short time scale of the impact dwell time.
ej20, I just can’t imagine anyone not agreeing with above, hence very curious indeed to hear any arguments you might possibly have to substantiate your critique.
mandrin
New
Displacement of club head during impact.
During impact a substantial percentage of the kinetic energy of the club head is transferred to the golf ball and consequently the club head slows down substantially during this impact interval.
Figs 1, 2, and 3, using the mathematical model derived for the analysis of the trampoline effect (1*), show respectively the deceleration, the velocity and the displacement of the club head during impact. The displacement of the club head during impact obtained can be shown to be 1.66 cm (0.65 inch).
With a rather different approach using the law of conservation of momentum, such as in my post on Impact Physics (2*), one can obtain the value for the displacement for the clubhead as being 1.68 cm (0.66 inch).
impact velocity = 44.7 m/s (100 mile/hr)
mass head = .2 kg
mass ball = .0457 kg
COR = 0.78 (3*)
1*) http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/golfing-discussions/7763-trampoline-effect.html
2*) http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/golfing-discussions/7554-golf-impact-physics.html
3*) Science and Golf IV - Lemons - Experiments in Golf Ball - Barrier Impacts.
During impact a substantial percentage of the kinetic energy of the club head is transferred to the golf ball and consequently the club head slows down substantially during this impact interval.
Figs 1, 2, and 3, using the mathematical model derived for the analysis of the trampoline effect (1*), show respectively the deceleration, the velocity and the displacement of the club head during impact. The displacement of the club head during impact obtained can be shown to be 1.66 cm (0.65 inch).
With a rather different approach using the law of conservation of momentum, such as in my post on Impact Physics (2*), one can obtain the value for the displacement for the clubhead as being 1.68 cm (0.66 inch).
impact velocity = 44.7 m/s (100 mile/hr)
mass head = .2 kg
mass ball = .0457 kg
COR = 0.78 (3*)
1*) http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/golfing-discussions/7763-trampoline-effect.html
2*) http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/golfing-discussions/7554-golf-impact-physics.html
3*) Science and Golf IV - Lemons - Experiments in Golf Ball - Barrier Impacts.
- Status