So much of this forum is descibing the golf swing in words and numbers, can we discuss some area's in regards to what someone should be feeling at certain intervals of the swing. Right arm pick-up does this mean turn and pick up? The best lag pressure , to achieve this what are the feelings a golfer should have when they finally achieve this. I would be interested in what some of the teachers feel at certain points in there own swings, TIM
FEELING WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN ?
- Thread starter TYORKE1
- Start date
- Status
Feel your hands and feet and balance.
Feel the 'heavy' club and the 'light' club. - Think of using a sledge hammer. When you swing it up, it feels heavy, then light, then heavy. You want a somewhat similar feel in golf for a float loading action.
As far as the overall motion, it is like throwing the club down, throwing a ball, throwing a frisbee. In all cases, you don't need to focus on each part, just your target. The throw is more 'down' than 'forward'. Like driving the ball into the ground.
Swinging back/through back/through with no thought of the clubface, just the motion and balance, can be very good practice, especially with a heavy club and your eyes closed. Imagine you are throwing the club down the fairway, take that same feel and throw it DOWN, driving the ball into the ground.
There are basically two main concepts to learn. What the club must do (lag, plane), and what the body must do to support the club. Eyes closed, balanced swinging of a heavy club will show you the natural throwing motion and how the body supports it. Step, throw, step, throw.
Smooth motion, always in balance.
Support the on plane swinging force in balance
Feel the 'heavy' club and the 'light' club. - Think of using a sledge hammer. When you swing it up, it feels heavy, then light, then heavy. You want a somewhat similar feel in golf for a float loading action.
As far as the overall motion, it is like throwing the club down, throwing a ball, throwing a frisbee. In all cases, you don't need to focus on each part, just your target. The throw is more 'down' than 'forward'. Like driving the ball into the ground.
Swinging back/through back/through with no thought of the clubface, just the motion and balance, can be very good practice, especially with a heavy club and your eyes closed. Imagine you are throwing the club down the fairway, take that same feel and throw it DOWN, driving the ball into the ground.
There are basically two main concepts to learn. What the club must do (lag, plane), and what the body must do to support the club. Eyes closed, balanced swinging of a heavy club will show you the natural throwing motion and how the body supports it. Step, throw, step, throw.
Smooth motion, always in balance.
Support the on plane swinging force in balance
Feel is often over emphasized. Feel is REACTIONARY. What you want is intention. You want to DO something with the club and have it "feel" like you did it.
My only advice is to be AWARE of what is happening and take great care in noting how the little changes you make effect the outcome. Once you know what little changes do what then make them your intention.... and hope you FEEL it happened.
My only advice is to be AWARE of what is happening and take great care in noting how the little changes you make effect the outcome. Once you know what little changes do what then make them your intention.... and hope you FEEL it happened.
Finally something I can comment about!
There was a time, lasted for years, when I had little problem shooting near or at par (was never a good putter, 32 was marvelous, usually 34/35) if I resisted reaching back for more than I owned!
TGM'er would probably say my good swing was "Hands Controlled Pivot", bad was pivot controlled hands.
When I resisted putting/wasting effort in my backswing and didn't knowingly underclub, I hit it very straight.
Maybe I did not get my point accross properly, EDZ not being crirical but I'm a plus two handicap , what I was meant was so many teachers can tell people how to do something , but have no clue how to get them to do it. Tgm is a wonderful method so much of it realies on the understanding of the words or numbers , my point was that it would be nice to have a discussion based on what people feel like they are doing and the TGM words or numbers can be applied as sort of a learning tool to understand the lingo. The backswing for instance , right wrist back means to me straight but I'm sure what happens is that the right wrist moves back and up and in, so to combine this with the right arm backswing can be confusing . This could get very technical but feeling and technique can be hand in hand. Hope I'm not confusing the question, TIM
I e-mailed you a link to an audio clip I have of Homer teaching a Master Class in 1980 (Yoda’s class), talking about the feel of the right arm take-away.
If you want to talk about this, let me know. It was one of the best things to happen to my swing that Yoda and Chuck taught. Quickly, the feel is up and back at the same time.
Homer believed in practicing mechanics into a feel and only playing with feel. It is sometimes hard to explain to outsiders to TGM, how much of a “feel producer” learning TGM really is. Toda really ingrain feels in all his instruction.
If you want to continue with the right arm takeaway, Tim, let me know.
Reply to your E-mail.
Tim - here is what we did at the workshop.
Extensor action is pulling of the left arm by the right. We held a small elastic rubber exercise band in the left hand, near the thumb in a grip like fashion and pulled on the edge of it with our right thumb and forefinger. Very very simple. What happened was the right arm stretched on the left arm. Add to this pull an UP and BACK motion of the right arm, a folding of the right elbow and the left flat wrist set perfectly at top. NO- the elbow is not held tightly to the right side, as you asked. In fact it could fly out like freddie’s for some. The shoulders turn with the extensor action. The shoulders do not move the arms or club. FEELING: my right elbow feels like it is pulling in a rake - don't over do it, it's a feeling.
It is important that the right hand fold back to keep the right wrist bent. This forms the right hand flying wedge, it stays on plane.
At address the right arm needs to stay loose and hang lower then the left arm. Some like to pre-turn the right hip at address.FEELING: I feel like I'm sitting back slightly on my right hip at the top. Hip action varies but it helps if they are out of the way, both Up and down.
If you swing- turn the hand to the right as the club goes to the top. PP#3 is now under the shaft and needs to roll to place PP#3 back behind the shaft
If you hit - no turn of hand. PP#3 is still behind the shaft ready to hit the ball.
Feeling: The right wrist has the same feel is being sworn in by a judge.
Remember what Homer said: “The club starts up and back simultaneously and immediately. It doesn’t go down the line, it doesn’t wait any time, it comes right on up to whatever plane you are coming off.” I love that tape.
Hope this helps
Tim - here is what we did at the workshop.
Extensor action is pulling of the left arm by the right. We held a small elastic rubber exercise band in the left hand, near the thumb in a grip like fashion and pulled on the edge of it with our right thumb and forefinger. Very very simple. What happened was the right arm stretched on the left arm. Add to this pull an UP and BACK motion of the right arm, a folding of the right elbow and the left flat wrist set perfectly at top. NO- the elbow is not held tightly to the right side, as you asked. In fact it could fly out like freddie’s for some. The shoulders turn with the extensor action. The shoulders do not move the arms or club. FEELING: my right elbow feels like it is pulling in a rake - don't over do it, it's a feeling.
It is important that the right hand fold back to keep the right wrist bent. This forms the right hand flying wedge, it stays on plane.
At address the right arm needs to stay loose and hang lower then the left arm. Some like to pre-turn the right hip at address.FEELING: I feel like I'm sitting back slightly on my right hip at the top. Hip action varies but it helps if they are out of the way, both Up and down.
If you swing- turn the hand to the right as the club goes to the top. PP#3 is now under the shaft and needs to roll to place PP#3 back behind the shaft
If you hit - no turn of hand. PP#3 is still behind the shaft ready to hit the ball.
Feeling: The right wrist has the same feel is being sworn in by a judge.
Remember what Homer said: “The club starts up and back simultaneously and immediately. It doesn’t go down the line, it doesn’t wait any time, it comes right on up to whatever plane you are coming off.” I love that tape.
Hope this helps
Rake some leaves and feel what the right elbow is doing. It goes back like a piston. Now add UP and let the left shoulder and pivot follow on its own. The left side should not push the right side. It will feel funny. It took me a month for it to feel perfect and that was just a few minutes a day, working it.
Everyone will be able to hear it and some other clips of Homer as soon as I finish the web site. I'm changing carriers in a week so Im just saving what I got in the meantime. The site will be more or less promo for Yoda's and Chuck's workshops. So I will only post it over there, so not to be a conflict with Brian's work. Yoda and I are working on a new logo for his workshop, think Flying Wedges. LOL
One note: be careful of what others feel. My disclaimner.
In the beginning, I could only take the club up and back from Impact Fix. You may want to try that for a while. It was if impact fix, up and back, down and out to impact was one straight line. BOOM.
Pros, I don't know. Many turn with their shoulder, they are a different animal, athletic. LOL. I still insist that Bryd hits on the sequence Redgoat posted, it looks like an ax handle prodecure into impact. Homer on my tape says he doesn't care how you get to the top, make all the mistakes you want as long as "you know how to get back." Most pros turn their hand to the right going up and will relocate PP3 to be behind the shaft on the way down if they hit with long irons. Less turn of the hand with the short stuff.
Look at the short iron play more, most pros hit the shorts. Hamilton hits many clubs, Lowery is a boomer. The more I look at Els, I think he is picking the club up more then away. His swing has changed the last few years.
Whenever im working on my swing - you must substitute knowledge into keys. I like to create visual keys....
For example
Here I am working on plane and r. forearm takeaway, the correct lower body movement and stable centre during backstroke.... I create the visual and then I 'get it'
For example
Here I am working on plane and r. forearm takeaway, the correct lower body movement and stable centre during backstroke.... I create the visual and then I 'get it'
RIPPER, sorry , my idea was to understand more by what players feel they are doing rather then the usual lingo , extensor , pivot, ,etc. I guess I'm still TGM illiterate. My topics were not just about what I stated but other thoughts people have regarding the swing. For instance today I was working on holding my turn a little longer at the start on the downswing , this get's the club more to the inside comming down, very good for slicers, me I hit a high draw , just thoughts but my feeling is to hold the chest away from the target longer. Mike I just read your posts thanks , I would very much like to simplify the backswing and I think TGM backswing is very simple and tight but I just could not get the proper feeling for it , thanks TIM
I'm surprised my point was not commented on. Feel is a REACTION. You can only have an intention and hope that the feel afterwards matches the intention you had. I recommend a rating scale.. 1-10.. how well did you perform your intention.. and the only way you can rate it is by being AWARE of it. That awareness is in the form of a FEEL. But you cannot FEEL the pain of a pin prick before you sit on it.
- Status