Finish swivel hitting the ball?

[Tom Bartlett]

There are some people who think, apparently, that the finish swivel hits the ball. What does the finish swivel look like if the swing ends at the end of follow through?

If you have a guy that can hit the ball from point a to point b time after time wouldn't you say he knows what he's doing?

How about if he can hit it from point a to point b straight, fade it, draw it, high, low, wouldn't you say that he has pretty good clubface control?

Flat left wrist, lag pressure point and a straight plane line.
Hinge action of an angular motion on an inclined plane.

 

[tongzilla]

quote:Originally posted by Tom Bartlett

There are some people who think, apparently, that the finish swivel hits the ball. What does the finish swivel look like if the swing ends at the end of follow through?

If you have a guy that can hit the ball from point a to point b time after time wouldn't you say he knows what he's doing?

How about if he can hit it from point a to point b straight, fade it, draw it, high, low, wouldn't you say that he has pretty good clubface control?

Flat left wrist, lag pressure point and a straight plane line.
Hinge action of an angular motion on an inclined plane.

Hi Tom,

By definition, there is no Finish Swivel at the end of the Follow Through. The Finish Swivel occurs after the Follow Through. It is the Hinge Action, not Finish Swivel that "hits the ball".

Yes, I definitely think that if someone can hit it from point ‘a’ to point ‘b’ with all kinds of trajectories, etc., then he's got good clubface control.

To me, there's no debate about what's geometrically correct (a definite Hinge Action followed by a palms parallel to the Plane type Finish Swivel). I hope you would agree with me on that point.

The debate lies somewhere else...Would you change a golfer who can hit it almost perfectly time after time just because his stroke pattern is not geometrically perfect? That's the instructor's job to decide. Some people may also find the "over roll with flat left wrist technique" a good way to teach the golfer things that would be hard to learn otherwise. There's also the "you try to do this which is incorrect, but you get this which is correct" factor which all good teachers use to their benefit.

I am sure Brian would agree that it’s more complicated than X is better than Y, therefore I will teach X to everyone. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[shortgamer]

Last night Brian hit a fade for me with a full roll finish swivel which debunks the swivel hits the ball idea. My irons are 3 deg. upright also which even made it harder.

 

[Brian Manzella]

(Hopefully) For the last time...

Hinge Action is a Metaphor!!!

There is no Hinge Assembly attched to the body...or the hands...or the club

It is a WAY to think about clubface control, and if you wish, a way to have a reference point or alignment for a certain effect.

Got it?

 

[Tom Bartlett]

quote:Originally posted by tongzilla
Hi Tom,

By definition, there is no Finish Swivel at the end of the Follow Through. The Finish Swivel occurs after the Follow Through. It is the Hinge Action, not Finish Swivel that "hits the ball".

Exactly my point

Yes, I definitely think that if someone can hit it from point ‘a’ to point ‘b’ with all kinds of trajectories, etc., then he's got good clubface control.

Yes

To me, there's no debate about what's geometrically correct (a definite Hinge Action followed by a palms parallel to the Plane type Finish Swivel). I hope you would agree with me on that point.

Why is it geometrically correct? Correct for what? Ball is already gone. If you don't do it that way what laws have you broken and how does it affect ball flight if the correct hinge action was used during the impact interval?

The debate lies somewhere else...Would you change a golfer who can hit it almost perfectly time after time just because his stroke pattern is not geometrically perfect? That's the instructor's job to decide. Some people may also find the "over roll with flat left wrist technique" a good way to teach the golfer things that would be hard to learn otherwise. There's also the "you try to do this which is incorrect, but you get this which is correct" factor which all good teachers use to their benefit.

If someone said you could fuse your left wrist flat during a golf swing then it goes back to normal afterward, would you want that? If not what advantage would you gain by letting your left wrist bend (not including trick shots)?

I am sure Brian would agree that it’s more complicated than X is better than Y, therefore I will teach X to everyone. Different strokes for different folks.

You just said it in your previous paragraph. Would you change someone who hits it well not doing what is "correct". It's the Jim Furyk principle. A couple of well known teachers were asked if they would have changed his swing had he come to them before he was famous. They said yes. We probably wouldn't know who he is if that had happened.

 

[tongzilla]

quote:Originally posted by Tom Bartlett


Why is it geometrically correct? Correct for what? Ball is already gone. If you don't do it that way what laws have you broken and how does it affect ball flight if the correct hinge action was used during the impact interval?

You know what I mean Tom!
However, let’s consider another scenario. Suppose, for whatever reason, the student hits it well with Horizontal Hinging, but ends up in a weird looking vertical hinging position after the Follow Through. Would you change anything or would you leave it alone because the ball is gone already?

quote:Originally posted by Tom Bartlett


If someone said you could fuse your left wrist flat during a golf swing then it goes back to normal afterward, would you want that? If not what advantage would you gain by letting your left wrist bend (not including trick shots)?

Obviously, under normal circumstances (99% of the time) you want a Flat Left Wrist between Impact and Follow Through. Are you referring to a Flat Left Wrist after the Follow Through? It’s great if you can do it without Steering. On the other hand, like you say, the ball is long gone already.

quote:Originally posted by Tom Bartlett


You just said it in your previous paragraph. Would you change someone who hits it well not doing what is "correct". It's the Jim Furyk principle. A couple of well known teachers were asked if they would have changed his swing had he come to them before he was famous. They said yes. We probably wouldn't know who he is if that had happened.

I’ll say it again – it’s your (the instructor) job to decide. Is Furyk (or anyone else for that matter) going to win more tournaments after making a swing change? How long will it take? Those are pertinent questions you’re paid to answer. Armed with the knowledge of The Golfing Machine, you know what’s geometrically correct and what’s not, and what requires a compensation and what doesn’t. But you still need to figure out what’s going to best particular student. And sometimes you gotta take a gamble…especially with the Tour players. I have spoken to a person who has seen Homer teach. Homer does not teach the Uncompensated Stroke to everyone!

 

[tongzilla]

quote:Originally posted by brianman

(Hopefully) For the last time...

Hinge Action is a Metaphor!!!

There is no Hinge Assembly attched to the body...or the hands...or the club

It is a WAY to think about clubface control, and if you wish, a way to have a reference point or alignment for a certain effect.

Got it?

That's obvious Brian. What's your point?

 

[tourdeep]

As a swinger or swittter, if one were to focus on a flat left wrist, bent right to follow thru, AND maintain, at the least, a flat left to finish along with a sound manzella pivot, would the hinge and swivel take care of its own?,,, via centripetal/fugal force?

Also, as a swinger or switter, if one were to obtain a "look" at finish with the flat left, "I've heard the Dracula finish is no good", what look would it be? We've talked wedding ring up position...? or will this take care of its own?

 

[vandal]

I wish I could hit the ball with my swivel because it's one dandy of a swivel.