"Fitting" in hybrids (no gaps)

[curtisj76]

Hey there, I'm thinking about buying a couple of hybrids (3 and 4 irons). However, I'm thinking the process is going to be a lot more difficult than I thought. Do you normally hit hybrids higher AND longer? I'm not looking for more distance as that would create an unwanted gap, I'm just looking for more height. I actually hit my long irons good it's just hard to stay on the green.

PS How can you find out if a club (hybrid) is bendable?

PSS I thought about going to the guy that built me my Wishon driver but I can't stand how their hybrids look at address. Anyone have the KZG's?

THanks

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

you will have to get a higher degree hybrid for the long iron it replaces. Otherwise it will go further.

 

[softconsult]

I have a 21 degree Titleist that I played for some time. Then, on a whim, I bought a 21 degree Bobby Jones on e-Bay for like $100 or so. Now this has to qualified by the fact the Titleist has an Project X 5.5 shaft versus graphite stiff in the Bobby Jones. The Titleist, as advertised, has a lower ball flight than most other hybrids. It is less forgiving.

Anyway the point is that the BJ , in my experience, lives up to what they show on TV. High and very long, amazing sometimes. Definitely agree that for the same loft a hybrid goes farther. My best swing with this club in calm conditions drops in somewhere around 210. I can also smother it left, but that's not the club's problem.

However, what I find problematic about the hybrids, and really the modern fairway woods, is the length. I don't feel as confident with them as with a long iron. That said, the overall results, are better for me with the hybrids.

 

[fronesis]

However, what I find problematic about the hybrids, and really the modern fairway woods, is the length. I don't feel as confident with them as with a long iron.

This is a good point. But it's not the fault of the technology; it's the fault of the manufacturers trying to sell clubs.

There is NO reason to play hybrids that are longer (length of club, I mean, not flight of ball) than the long irons they replace. If you go to graphite in the hybrid, then you should 1/4", but that's it.

The reason that people have really long shafts in their hybrids is because the manufacturers want to sell you a club that "hits it further." But there's no need for it in terms of your golf game and your golf swing.

I play Wishon hybrids and use the extra 1/4" that Wishon himself recommends. But this means that my 3 and 4 iron hybrids are NOT that long - so I'm MUCH more confident with them. Even though I never had a problem hitting my long irons, I don't think I'll go back: I can hit the hybrids, higher, softer, further, and with some time with them, I've found they are very workable. Plus, trying to play a 4 iron out of the rough from 195 - it is SO much easier with the hybrid.

By the way, the SAME thing goes for driver lengths. Tour pros play their drivers at 44" and 44.5". Yet the club manufacturers are all selling 46" drivers. You'll hit the ball further with a 44" driver that you can hit in the middle of the clubface than with a 46" driver that you hit off-center.

 

[softconsult]

Agreed, but the manufacturers also design headweights to match the length they are selling. Sure it can be overcome with leadtape and down the shaft weighting or component clubs, but what a hassle. I agree with your comment about Driver length.

The next one I buy will not be 45". , thinking of doing the Titleist fitting thing again. Did it in Jan 08. Now they have the interchangeable shaft cart and supposedly the weight screw for customization. We'll see whether they actually have any shorter driver shafts.

 

[fronesis]

Agreed, but the manufacturers also design headweights to match the length they are selling. Sure it can be overcome with leadtape and down the shaft weighting or component clubs, but what a hassle. I agree with your comment about Driver length.

Yes, yes - you're totally right: it's not simple as you can't just hack off the length of the club without screwing up swingweight and club MOI (which is much more important). But if you have a golf galaxy, golfsmith, or (better) a good clubmaker in your area, it's not ALL that hard or all that expensive.

And I admit that I'm a bit biased here since I play ONLY component clubs.

 

[curtisj76]

fronesis, sounds like you like your Wishons. Do you have a problem hooking them at all?

 

[fronesis]

fronesis, sounds like you like your Wishons. Do you have a problem hooking them at all?

I LOVE them!

I play the 321Li, and I have a 1 iron, 3 iron, and 4 iron. These have very little offset - only 1mm. So, no, I don't have any problems hitting them left, but I do find them pretty easy to work right and left.

The rest of my bag is also all Wishon:

555m blades
CX Micro wedges
919thi Driver and 13 degree 3 wood

 

[curtisj76]

I was looking at the 785HF's but like I mentioned I don't like how they look. I was just on Wishon's website and looks like he has a new design, 331H. Might have to look at those, seems like they replaced the 321's and they have more of a "true" hybrid look than the 785's.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

IMO the best hyriid out there is the Adams Idea Pro and i've hit a BUNCH. I haven't had time to hit the Idea Pro Gold hybrid though.

 

[Michael Jacobs]

I was looking at the 785HF's but like I mentioned I don't like how they look. I was just on Wishon's website and looks like he has a new design, 331H. Might have to look at those, seems like they replaced the 321's and they have more of a "true" hybrid look than the 785's.

Curtis,

I have had no success selling the wishon hybrids.. both models you mention I have the demos for and no one like them. I think they are poorly designed... KZG iron woods are pretty good, but not as great as some of their other clubs. I do see a lot of Adams on the course

 

[niblick1]

IMO the best hyriid out there is the Adams Idea Pro and i've hit a BUNCH. I haven't had time to hit the Idea Pro Gold hybrid though.

I use the Idea Pro Gold hybrids with matrix altus shaft. I think they are spectacularly good. May be in part the way the stiff altus shaft works with the club and fits well with my swing, though.

 

[jmessner]

Curtis,

I have played the Wishon 321LI's since they first came out, and yes the look is different than some of typical OEM hybrid designs although I've seen some OEM with some of his design features. A few things to keep in mind - I've noticed that it's very easy to align the topline of the hybrid with the target rather than the sole line or scorelines and you can end up with a closed face at impact if you're not careful. The other thing is that the Wishon hybrids usually have a .335" hosel rather than taper tip or .370 like others. The intent is to help get the ball in the air due to a larger forward bend but this can also produce a closed face. Personally, I have the 2,3 and 4 in my bag and they I've built them a little longer than typical irons, mostly just to get the swingweight correct. So, they go about a 1/2 club longer than the irons they replace.

The thing about hybrid distance is interesting since, like Brian says, the ball only knows about loft, path and clubhead speed. If you look at many of the OEM hybrids, as has been mentioned, they are built with lower lofts and at longer lengths than the same numbered iron. So, it naturally leaves a gap, maybe a large one, between the iron/hybrid transition point. It would be better if you can get a hybrid more matched to your iron set. As a component clubmaker myself(as a hobby), I'm always amazed that people pull stuff off the rack and know almost nothing about it other than it looks good and (maybe) it hits well at the range for about ten swings. As a minimum, they should get it measured for length, lie, loft, swingweight, etc and make adjustments. I've measured too many OEM clubs that weren't even close to their "specs".

So, if you do go with Adams or some other OEM, I'd suggest you work with somebody who could do some alterations to both fit you and reduce the distance gap. Regarding loft/lie, I generally consider hybrids unbendable, but someone with a good bender and experience may be able to bend it a degree or two. Luckily, lie isn't as big a deal on long irons and you might be able to have a clubmaker cherry pick the correct loft. Good luck!

Jay

 

[curtisj76]

Curtis,

I have had no success selling the wishon hybrids.. both models you mention I have the demos for and no one like them. I think they are poorly designed... KZG iron woods are pretty good, but not as great as some of their other clubs. I do see a lot of Adams on the course

At least I'm not the only one, my wife was giving me crap about not liking the "look".

 

[curtisj76]

I like the looks and I've hit the Adams, I just think it might be hard to find someone to work with. Right now I can get a 3 and 4 for $100 bucks a pop, that's pretty cheap. But I'm not sure if I'm regular or stiff flex.

 

[curtisj76]

So, if you do go with Adams, I'd suggest you work with somebody who could do some alterations to both fit you and reduce the distance gap.

That's my goal, thanks Jay

 

[fronesis]

At least I'm not the only one, my wife was giving me crap about not liking the "look".

I think it just depends on what "look" you are going for. I think Wishon wants to make them look like IRONS. A lot of hybrids are meant to look like woods.

But unlike Michael Jacobs, I can say that my dad (he builds them) and I have sold a half dozen of the Wishon hybrids just in the past month or so.

 

[jmessner]

I think it just depends on what "look" you are going for. I think Wishon wants to make them look like IRONS. A lot of hybrids are meant to look like woods.

But unlike Michael Jacobs, I can say that my dad (he builds them) and I have sold a half dozen of the Wishon hybrids just in the past month or so.

Yeah, I've got most of my buddies using them once they saw me put them in play. The look is subjective, I guess, but they look great when they perform like a fade 3-hybrid out of the rough over trees on the green from 205 out. Could never has done that with my normal 3-iron.

Jay

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

I like the looks and I've hit the Adams, I just think it might be hard to find someone to work with. Right now I can get a 3 and 4 for $100 bucks a pop, that's pretty cheap. But I'm not sure if I'm regular or stiff flex.

Ebay and the classifieds of BSG and golfwrx are your friend...

adams idea pro hybrid, Clubs items on eBay.com

I was able to get my Adams Idea Pro 20* with a Maxtrix Altus in it for $150 shipped and that was LAST SEASON. My ebay link has plenty that are in your price range and you can also scan the classifieds of the other forums that have club sections. I never buy golf equipment new.

Tour Comp 8.5* off the bay with Accra SC75 shaft: $250
Ping S58's with ZZ65: $400
Adams Idea Pro Matrix Altus: $150
Nike T40 Tour 5 wood with Mitsu blueboard: $150
Titleist 906F with fuji rombax: $175

Scan the classifieds and the bay when you need stuff; most expensive things i tend to buy are balls and wedges because i buy those new.

 

[vjsinger]

I like the looks and I've hit the Adams, I just think it might be hard to find someone to work with. Right now I can get a 3 and 4 for $100 bucks a pop, that's pretty cheap. But I'm not sure if I'm regular or stiff flex.

IMO the shaft is the heart of the golf club....figure that out first.