Flare front foot to fix pulls?

[Keefer]

Any thoughts on flaring the front foot to alleviate pulls and pull hooks? My thinking is it may help with opening the hips more and shallow out the swing some. It also could help with any stalled pivot as the hips are already pre-turned a little. So for an arm swinger it seems it could help with the ball going left.

I know this is the opposite of what is good for too much in to out in your swing (swing more left). All you read about for pulls is you're OTT and steep. However, what would be the answer if you have an Inside Approach training aid and never hit the cushion?

It seems that would indicate a too inside to inside swing and flaring the front foot would get the swing less inside to inside and more inside to outside. Thoughts?

 

[trashpar]

Unless its more of a clubface issue....

 

[Erik_K]

Some questions:

Where does the ball start? Starts left or down the middle and then it curves left? Or is the ball a straight left shot (straight pull)?

If you are coming from the inside, the face could very well be overly closed to the path and the ball has no chance of ever landing in the center of the fairway. Assuming the path is OK, you could work on making the face a bit less closed to it. Make sure the grip isn't overly strong or you are not gripping it closed.

Erik

 

[Keefer]

Some questions:

Where does the ball start? Starts left or down the middle and then it curves left? Or is the ball a straight left shot (straight pull)?

If you are coming from the inside, the face could very well be overly closed to the path and the ball has no chance of ever landing in the center of the fairway. Assuming the path is OK, you could work on making the face a bit less closed to it. Make sure the grip isn't overly strong or you are not gripping it closed.

Erik

My miss is it pretty much starts left and stays left. For example. Yesterday I had 137 yards to the flag. I hit my 8 iron probably 15-20 yards left into the bunker. It went straight left (typical miss). Typical miss with my drives are straight pull left / hook left.

I'm almost 57 and don't have a lot of flexibility. So my guess is my arms race past my body and the ball goes left (stalled pivot?). The left foot flare seems like it would get the hips open slightly and allow the path to be more down the line instead of left, as long as my shoulders don't get too open.

If there's such a thing as inside steep then that would make sense. I do have a more vertical downswing, but not steep enough to hit the cushion on the Inside Approach, which always baffled me.

If I open the face (weaker grip) I get a fade / slice (straight right or right to right). Bubba Watson plays with an open stance and strong grip and can curve it both ways. He also says when he wants to hit it real long he flares his front foot out more. The downside is the arms can get stuck behind him and cause a block. I'm thinking I need some of that stuck behind to keep the ball from going left.

I think I read somewhere that a deflared front foot causes an earlier release and a flared front front delays the release. Think the flared front foot for me would delay the release. Coupled with the hips opening up more the ball should go straighter???

Anyway this is my thought process. Going to try it tomorrow when I play again.

 

[Erik_K]

IMO the action of the shoulders or sequence of the hips and shoulders cannot be understated. If the ball starts left and stays left (little actual hooking going on) then it's certainly possible that the right shoulder is driving out prematurely.

As Brian has stated...hips, hands, clubhead.

The flaring of the lead foot will no doubt lead to an easier unwinding and easier hip turn through the ball. That doesn't mean the issue is automatically fixed.

Another idea is to hit the ball with a VERY open stance. It takes a concerted effort to avoid the ball going mega-left. If you are used to leading with the right shoulder, trying to lead more with the hips (keep head back for axis tilt) and sort of delay the shoulder rotation (let arms drop down a little first) is a very different feeling. In some sense it will feel like your back is to the target longer, but what you are doing is letting the hips clear first and try to give the arms more time to drop down some.

 

[Keefer]

IMO the action of the shoulders or sequence of the hips and shoulders cannot be understated. If the ball starts left and stays left (little actual hooking going on) then it's certainly possible that the right shoulder is driving out prematurely.

As Brian has stated...hips, hands, clubhead.

The flaring of the lead foot will no doubt lead to an easier unwinding and easier hip turn through the ball. That doesn't mean the issue is automatically fixed.

Another idea is to hit the ball with a VERY open stance. It takes a concerted effort to avoid the ball going mega-left. If you are used to leading with the right shoulder, trying to lead more with the hips (keep head back for axis tilt) and sort of delay the shoulder rotation (let arms drop down a little first) is a very different feeling. In some sense it will feel like your back is to the target longer, but what you are doing is letting the hips clear first and try to give the arms more time to drop down some.

Good advice. I think I do lead with the right shoulder (coming down). I believe I tried an open stance once and expected a big slice, but was surprised the ball went dead straight. Anyway, when I start pulling the ball like I am now I'm going to try the front foot flare and or open stance.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[gmbtempe]

Unless its more of a clubface issue....

I agree with helping your pivot not stall to alleviate a pull.

Pulls do not have to be over the top and steep, if you flip it closed you can hit a pull. I hit pull hooks for years with a combination too inside out with a flipped closed face.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

I know this is the opposite of what is good for too much in to out in your swing (swing more left). All you read about for pulls is you're OTT and steep. However, what would be the answer if you have an Inside Approach training aid and never hit the cushion?

Without a TM hard to say exactly but you have essentially a clubface pull based on your current path/aoa. You can swing too in/out, hit down a bit too much and have the face juuuuust right and you'll hit pulls all day.

 

[gmbtempe]

Without a TM hard to say exactly but you have essentially a clubface pull based on your current path/aoa. You can swing too in/out, hit down a bit too much and have the face juuuuust right and you'll hit pulls all day.

oh yea you can....and when you hook it listen to your friends say you were over the top!

 

[ekennedy]

Any thoughts on flaring the front foot to alleviate pulls and pull hooks? My thinking is it may help with opening the hips more and shallow out the swing some. It also could help with any stalled pivot as the hips are already pre-turned a little. So for an arm swinger it seems it could help with the ball going left.

I know this is the opposite of what is good for too much in to out in your swing (swing more left). All you read about for pulls is you're OTT and steep. However, what would be the answer if you have an Inside Approach training aid and never hit the cushion?

It seems that would indicate a too inside to inside swing and flaring the front foot would get the swing less inside to inside and more inside to outside. Thoughts?

Flaring the front foot out COULD actually lead to pulls, not prevent them. Most players don't hit pulls because of a stalled pivot, they hit pulls because they never really turned their back to the target in the first place. Flaring the front foot out makes turning your back to the target more difficult due to the resistance on the hips.

Just sayin...

 

[Matt 4-L]

Flaring the front foot out COULD actually lead to pulls, not prevent them. Most players don't hit pulls because of a stalled pivot, they hit pulls because they never really turned their back to the target in the first place. Flaring the front foot out makes turning your back to the target more difficult due to the resistance on the hips.

Just sayin...

Agree, plus it can lead to an early extension, especially if your already leading with the shoulders.

 

[puttmaster]

The warnings by Eric and Matt made me think of the LAWS prescription for us "Arc" players with long arms: slightly closed stance with front foot flared out (to make toe lines evenly parallel with target line); on downswing, keep the back turned from the target while bumping hips diagonally across the slightly closed stance line. I never realized before now, but I suppose all that is to negate any tendency to open/pull and/or early extend. Interesting stuff.

 

[Erik_K]

You mean to the bump the hips out to the right (for a right handed golfer)?

Erik

 

[puttmaster]

You mean to the bump the hips out to the right (for a right handed golfer)?

Erik

No, first transition move down would be a slight hip bump left, diagonally, along the slightly closed stance line. In other words, instead of a lateral (parallel) hip bump left to start down, the LAWS prescription (for ARC players) is to make the hip bump a slightly closed, diagonal move (which, in line with current forum discussion, helps keep the back, shoulders and rear hip turned away from the target a fraction longer).

 

[Erik_K]

OK so the stance line is to the right - it's closed, or the right foot is dropped behind the left.

The hip move is along the stance line (which is oriented to the right of the target). You say the stance is closed but the hip move is to the left and along the stance line - this seems like moving in two directions at the same time to me. I'm not trying to start and arugment. I am only trying to understand your response.

Erik

 

[Keefer]

Front foot flare was not the answer. Did not have a problem with pulls today. Shot an 80 (39-41) and won first place quota with 3 birdies. I think sometimes I may be aimed too far right. For my swing anyway it's a constant battle with adjustments. Everyday seems to be different. If riding a bike were like golf there would be a lot of battle scars.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Flaring front foot sets the lead leg joints in an "open" position per se. EKennedy is totally right. To prevent pulls one would rather need a flared rear foot that would limit OTT element automatically (best with setting the rear foot back a bit).

Cheers

 

[Keefer]

Tyical with golf instruction, for every absolute there is an opposite absolute. Although flaring the front foot seems not to be the answer for me the idea seems to me to make sense. If you pull the ball because your arms are out racing your body then opening the hips (keep turning thru) would in theory keep your arms back and come in behind your hips (opening).

Taken to the extreme this would cause the arms to get "stuck" and shots would fly right of target. No more pulls. Again, many reasons for certain problems and many answers to that same problem. Trick is to find the one that fixes your problem. As we know easier said than done.