Flat Left Wrist, Clubface dead at the sky at the top, Need your help Brian

[kc8kir]

Ok,

I've decided to take care of my left wrist stability problem. My wrist tends to break down at the top of the swing. I end up cocking both wrists . I usually get it flattened again around the time of impact, but as a result of this very loose timing, I am constantly missing both ways (and double crossing). It's annoying as well as highly unstable. My game is great one minute and horrible the next. Factor in the occasional total fat shot when my wrists give out on the downswing (wedges mostly!), and I'm really not liking it.

Since I seem to slice the heck out of my long clubs, I am trying the twist away move to get to flat.

Question 1: With a flat (not arched) left wrist at the top, manzella neutral grip, the face of my club is only about 10-15 degrees shy of facing totally at the sky. Is this ok? When I do mock downswings, keeping the wrist tension, it comes down square to the ball.

Question 2: How much foward shaft lean is too much? When I do the flat left wrist with my driver, the forward lean at impact is increased a lot. Will some of the delofting be counteracted by shaft bend at impact? Otherwise, I'll be hitting a 5 degree driver!

Question 3: Right now, my thought at the top is right wrist bend back, into waiters tray position. Any other ideas on how to think of the flat left wrist position at the top.

I can tell you right now, this makes my entire swing feel different. Lots of muscles and ligaments getting stretched. I am so used to feeling the club flounder loosely and timing it on the way down (so very hard with the woods I might add), that the flat wrist feels almost mechanical. Turn to top - Flat wrist - pivot through. Very different from my usual move, but definitely more stable. Feels like less lag, but the "whoosh" at the bottom is just as loud as ever.

Thanks for the help!

 

[jc2bg]

Fairly new to this forum. I dug out your post because I've been thinking about posting the same questions.

Have recently viewed most of Brian's youtube lesson videos, and am convinced that flat left wrist (which I've never tried before this week) is the path to my finally getting consistent iron striking--this despite my playing for 40 years and currently holding a 4 index.

Like you, the flw feels very mechanical, and not being a big hitter (avg. carry distance for 7 iron is 145-ish), I can't afford to get too mechanical. But flw at setup, at the top of the backswing, and at impact is just so darned productive of solid shots! My swing keys using the flw are: lean club a little forward at address, turn away, concentrate on completing the backswing to the fullest extent of flexibility, complete downswing with attention to keeping head behind the ball.

The flw position at top--like you, my prior technique allowed both wrists to "break" in the backswing--feels much shortened, but as I observe it in slo-mo, it's shortened maybe 10% from before [it feels much shorter than that]. I wonder whether I'm doing a right thing in practicing a move that might be difficult to unlearn later. It's still cold enough here that I can't tell how far I might be hitting it (most balls I've hit have been at temps in the 30-35 range). Really, really solid contact with the all-flw move. I'm a not-so-strong player who, over many years, has turned himself from a slicer into a consistent small drawer of the ball (although I can miss in both directions). With the flw and a turn-turn action, I hit 100% draws, about twice as much draw as before, and I actually have to force myself to swing straight out toward the target (and hold on a bit) if I want to hit a straight ball.

It's early days for me with the flw, of course, but my main question is: can a physically average amateur golfer use an all-flw swing (flat left wrist at all times) and not be leaving anything significant behind in terms of performance?

Love this forum. Thanks in advance for the favor of any response. -- JC (Ohio)

Ok,

I've decided to take care of my left wrist stability problem. My wrist tends to break down at the top of the swing. I end up cocking both wrists . I usually get it flattened again around the time of impact, but as a result of this very loose timing, I am constantly missing both ways (and double crossing). It's annoying as well as highly unstable. My game is great one minute and horrible the next. Factor in the occasional total fat shot when my wrists give out on the downswing (wedges mostly!), and I'm really not liking it.

Since I seem to slice the heck out of my long clubs, I am trying the twist away move to get to flat.

Question 1: With a flat (not arched) left wrist at the top, manzella neutral grip, the face of my club is only about 10-15 degrees shy of facing totally at the sky. Is this ok? When I do mock downswings, keeping the wrist tension, it comes down square to the ball.

Question 2: How much foward shaft lean is too much? When I do the flat left wrist with my driver, the forward lean at impact is increased a lot. Will some of the delofting be counteracted by shaft bend at impact? Otherwise, I'll be hitting a 5 degree driver!

Question 3: Right now, my thought at the top is right wrist bend back, into waiters tray position. Any other ideas on how to think of the flat left wrist position at the top.

I can tell you right now, this makes my entire swing feel different. Lots of muscles and ligaments getting stretched. I am so used to feeling the club flounder loosely and timing it on the way down (so very hard with the woods I might add), that the flat wrist feels almost mechanical. Turn to top - Flat wrist - pivot through. Very different from my usual move, but definitely more stable. Feels like less lag, but the "whoosh" at the bottom is just as loud as ever.

Thanks for the help!

 

[kc8kir]

I finally figured out that my problem with flat left wrist and closed clubface was because in reality my grip had shifted to being WAY too strong. From my viewpoint, it still looked the same, but the actual position of the club in my hands was too strong.

The result was an unavoidable cup.

Try the Manzella Neutral grip, with just a touch stronger. It will probably feel much weaker than your current grip, but will help you attain a near flat left wrist with aligned clubface.

 

[jc2bg]

Flat left wrist: grip strength

Thanks. It didn't take a rocket scientist [luckily] to figure out that, as someone who sliced for 20 years and eventually forged a pretty reliable draw, that I'd built into my setup some components that would cause a strong player to hit it off the world left. My grip is definitely on the strong side, and now that I can hit draws all day long without even thinking about it, I'll need some time to break in new setup keys that *don't* try to maximize draw. If anything, I'll need to learn how to play left to right holes, or else try to get Rocco Mediate as a constant playing companion.

I may try to resurrect grip positions that previously almost guaranteed me fades. My grip of choice in recent years has been the double overlap a la Furyk. My right hand was almost underneath my left, even at address. Long way from neutral. -- JC

I finally figured out that my problem with flat left wrist and closed clubface was because in reality my grip had shifted to being WAY too strong. From my viewpoint, it still looked the same, but the actual position of the club in my hands was too strong.

The result was an unavoidable cup.

Try the Manzella Neutral grip, with just a touch stronger. It will probably feel much weaker than your current grip, but will help you attain a near flat left wrist with aligned clubface.

 

[jake2]

Twistaway

Ok,

I've decided to take care of my left wrist stability problem. My wrist tends to break down at the top of the swing. I end up cocking both wrists . I usually get it flattened again around the time of impact, but as a result of this very loose timing, I am constantly missing both ways (and double crossing). It's annoying as well as highly unstable. My game is great one minute and horrible the next. Factor in the occasional total fat shot when my wrists give out on the downswing (wedges mostly!), and I'm really not liking it.

Since I seem to slice the heck out of my long clubs, I am trying the twist away move to get to flat.

Question 1: With a flat (not arched) left wrist at the top, manzella neutral grip, the face of my club is only about 10-15 degrees shy of facing totally at the sky. Is this ok? When I do mock downswings, keeping the wrist tension, it comes down square to the ball.

Question 2: How much foward shaft lean is too much? When I do the flat left wrist with my driver, the forward lean at impact is increased a lot. Will some of the delofting be counteracted by shaft bend at impact? Otherwise, I'll be hitting a 5 degree driver!

Question 3: Right now, my thought at the top is right wrist bend back, into waiters tray position. Any other ideas on how to think of the flat left wrist position at the top.

I can tell you right now, this makes my entire swing feel different. Lots of muscles and ligaments getting stretched. I am so used to feeling the club flounder loosely and timing it on the way down (so very hard with the woods I might add), that the flat wrist feels almost mechanical. Turn to top - Flat wrist - pivot through. Very different from my usual move, but definitely more stable. Feels like less lag, but the "whoosh" at the bottom is just as loud as ever.

Thanks for the help!

When I sometimes get that kind of loose feeling in my wrists (most likely due to cupping & cocking left wrist where sweetspot seems to get off plane at the top), I can usually get things back on track by adding a bit of twistaway.

In a way that might be one alternative thought for your question #3 - twist back of left hand away from you (to the outside of the swing arc). You just need to figure out how much is needed.