Flat shoulder turn

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ThomasTheTank

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I have been working hard to take my hands out of the backswing and concentrate on making a good shoulder turn and pivot whilst keeping the arms straight

So far so good and the first half of my backswing looks and feels perfect, club sets on line, is outside hands when paralell etc. However what im finding is when I keep trying to turn the shoulders to take the club to to the top, it seems i over rotate my whole body, maybe sway a little and the club goes really flat (arm well below shoulder plane). When I look at the pro's swing videos it seems to me that from halfway back, as they keep turning, the left arm is merely rotated to the top on the right shoulder plane

What can I do to ensure the second half of my backswing isnt so flat and get that left arm to 'rise up'. I try to keep the flex in my right leg and my posture but it doesnt seem to work?
 
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ThomasTheTank

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tank said:
After the first half of the backswing, lift your arms as you turn.
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You see this is what I used to do and I found that any conscious lifting of the arms would put me out of position, my wrists/left arm would break down and id loop it OTT

When I look at pro swings there is (im sure) no lifting, just a shoulder turn/pivit around the spine angle

My thoughts are that maybe my shoulder turn is too level and I need to get more axis tilt in it somehow
 
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Jared Willerson

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There is some lifting of the arms....but it is really smooth and therefore you don't notice it as much, but most everyone has a little lift that co-ordinates well with the pivot
 
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bendet3

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I'm pretty sure that there IS lifting going on with the Pros as well, as Brian says, you need to show your armpits more on the backswing. If it makes you feel any better, I fight the same problem. For me, I found that I needed to "feel" more like I was cocking my wrists faster during the backswing (I had taken the "one-piece takeaway" too far) and just a little more lifting of the arms in the second half of the backswing.
 
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ThomasTheTank

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OK, so if my arms have to lift - how should I do that? In the past I think ive lifted them with the hands such that my wrist broke down (cupped) and so did my left arm

How can I do this where I feel im keeping the same extension in my left arm as I turn - in the upper arm/forearm? In the past ive found any lifting ruins my swing since it steepens it and I throw it OTT on the way down. I want to find a way of 'feeling' a full shoulder turn and having the arms on the right plane. I was hoping I could do it by just using my shoulder turn and not having to make a conscious lift (an extra movement I could do without?)

EDIT: I used to feel as if I did a bicep curl from halfway back *after reading it somewhere* but that collapsed my left arm. Just messing around now then on a practice swing - from halfway back - if my right hand (PP1?) pulls my left thumb up and behind and keeps the left arm taut then this seems to look OK, providing I keep turning as I do this. I think my issuse is combining the two moves. A few practice swings and I can feel my piviot stops as I lift so I can do one but not both - its like rubbing my stomach and patting my head !
 
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golfer24

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I don't believe there should be any lift of the arms in the backswing. I feel exactly the same whether the club is a wedge or a driver and if you looked on film they would look alot different.
 
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bendet3

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TTT - one thing that helped me was to use a mirror DTL but behind me (as opposed to on the target side of the swing) and then I use the mirror to "pose" a top of the backswing, ie. right tricep parallel to ground, flat left wrist, clubface matching flat left wrist, and then hold it for second, then go back to address and immediately do a backswing trying to take my hands right back to where they were "posed". I know that there is no such thing as "muscle-memory" but I found that this worked for me.
 
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Medici999

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jim....or anyone else, do you have a picture of the position that we are trying to achieve? like a top of the backswing, so i can do comparisons. thanks
 
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pecky987

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golfer24 said:
Centrifugal force
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you'd go to flat. thers no force that directly opposes gravity, so you have to do some lifting. like brians demonstration shows, if you take a top of backswing, and take away hip and shoulder turn, it shows your arms go predominantly UP
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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I like Brian's little video (not sure what one though).....

"From a normal top of backswing position, unwind your torso until your chest is back to "square" while keeping your power package loaded and your left arm across your chest and your right arm bent."

(this is how much you have lifted your arms)
 
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golfspike

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depends on what type of swing you want to achieve in my swing i move from elbow plane to turned shoulder plane without consciously lifting my arms however the the right elbow folding and the right forearm "fanning" open for me brings the club up to TSP so best figure out what plane you want to swing on first
 
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golfer24

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pecky987 said:
you'd go to flat. thers no force that directly opposes gravity, so you have to do some lifting. like brians demonstration shows, if you take a top of backswing, and take away hip and shoulder turn, it shows your arms go predominantly UP
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Flat maybe but still on plane. Would you say that hogan had a flat backswing. I know i would. Why should this be a problem if still on plane. Surely it is better to not feel like you lift your arms at all. Most people have heard the comment from people who watched Hogan practise that you could hear his backswing. From my understanding this is because he dragged the ground going back and did not lift up with his arms.
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
golfer24 said:
Flat maybe but still on plane. Would you say that hogan had a flat backswing. I know i would. Why should this be a problem if still on plane. Surely it is better to not feel like you lift your arms at all. Most people have heard the comment from people who watched Hogan practise that you could hear his backswing. From my understanding this is because he dragged the ground going back and did not lift up with his arms.
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Hogan still lifted and was still on plane, he looked very flat because he had a very flat shoulder turn which allowed him to have his arms lower but still on the TSP.
 
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