Flex affecting length

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This comes up in the thread that won't go away but I wanted everybody to see this. Can a softer flex launch the ball further than a stiffer flex assuming they are the same weight? I'm sure you've all heard go a half flex soft for length or a half a flex stiffer for accuracy. I've been told by many club builders to get the softest flex you can control for your driver.
 
shortgamer, Brian replied in the other tread, that according to one Mr. Bush stiff shaft will hit a ball further if everything else remain unchanged (including club head speed). I think a player can generate more speed with a softer flex due to whipping action and hence the ball will go further, but might loose cnotrol because timing become very very important....just IMO.
 
what i've heard is that there is no "whipping action" into impact with the softer shaft, or any shaft. shafts do not add to clubhead speed. golfers achieve varied results with different shaft profiles due to feel and total weight.

Brian, why does a weaker shaft send the ball shorter?
 
This very interesting. I am in the market to buy a new set of irons, and like to know the best shaft to fit my game. It appears to me that most suggest the flex based on swing speed with regular shaft for lower swing speed and stiffer flex as speed increases. As ThomGN asked, why don't we all play XX shaft?
 
I only swing the driver about 105 and have always played reg flex shafts but I happened to trade for a driver with a stiff shaft and although I sometimes push it about 10 yards it's the longest driver I've ever had. This never made since to me before but if a stiffer shaft resist deceleration of the clubhead it is now clear. Maybe I should be looking for the stiffest shaft I can hit straight with the proper trajectory.
 
Most, including tour players, use shafts which are too stiff, which kick too soon. As Brian has said before, proper shaft flex is almost solely a function of timing. The amount of distance difference between a reg and stiff shaft is small, so you don't choose a shaft flex for distance gains.
 
Almost every site that talks about shaft flex, tends to state that regular shaft will go farther...I think TW woods said the same, control was his problem.

the yellow book, 6-c-2-d, the stiffer the clubshaft the lesser the margin on throwaway. It seems there is a point of diminishing return based on one's swing characteristics.

Prior to my yellow book days, I tried several clubs at a Taylor Made demo day, not paying attention to the shaft specs. After narrowing down the favorites, the regular and stiff both felt equally good, xtra stiff was a no go. Because of information shared, I chose the regular shaft, based on what I thought was longer distance tendency, and more lag potential given colder environment in the Pacifc Northwest playing tricks on the body.


Would the type of shaft matter on someone with sweep versus snap, hitter versus swinger?
 
MJ if a stiff shaft kicks too soon than why do you hit shafts that are too stiff low and to the right. Have they already kicked and are bending back again?
 
quote:Originally posted by tourdeep


Would the type of shaft matter on someone with sweep versus snap, hitter versus swinger?

Homer and Hitters say that the stiffer the better. In general, it's probably true that the snap releaser is more likely to need a stiffer shaft, and a sweeper more likely to need a slower kicking shaft, BUT, the experts say that timing is the overriding characteristic. Shaft flex is still somewhat mysterious to me, and my personal experience is that I can adapt to about any flex, except one that is too stiff for me to load, like a Rifle 7.0, 7.5, or 8.0.
 

Tom Bartlett

Administrator
Actually, if you get fitted by swing sync or henry griffiths, they chart the ball flight with each shaft. Shafts that are too stiff cause pulls.
 
quote:Originally posted by shortgamer

MJ if a stiff shaft kicks too soon than why do you hit shafts that are too stiff low and to the right. Have they already kicked and are bending back again?

I think that how a stiff shaft causes a miss differs between a good swing and a bad one.
 
quote:Originally posted by Tom Bartlett

Actually, if you get fitted by swing sync or henry griffiths, they chart the ball flight with each shaft. Shafts that are too stiff cause pulls.

That might explain why my misses are always left using Rifle 6.5 in MP-29s and zz-lite in Ping Eye2s. Maybe I need softer shafts.
 
We should all remember that resistance to deceleration is going to be a very small fraction of the distance equation. We should first look at clubhead speed at impact. So how could a shaft contribute to clubhead speed? With enough of a change in total weight it could, but we're assuming the only variable is flex. Some will say the softer shaft will whip through impact and add speed, or, if you can't load the stiffer shaft that will cost you distance. My belief is that, by itself, the shaft never adds to or costs clubhead speed. Golfers who experience changes in clubhead speed with nothing but a flex change, have done so due to a preference for the feel of that shaft over another, and how that affects their swing. So, with the same weight, balance point and profile (same club MOI/swingweight), IMO the softer shaft will only increase clubhead speed if the golfer, with his swing, prefers the feel of that shaft and his swing and contact improves because of it.

As to the issue of flex affecting the resistance to deceleration... is there any data?


Side note/rant

Like swing theory and instruction, how much of the general equipment "knowledge" is hand me down opinion and based on feel? Much of it has a similar ring to the BS swing instruction we've all come to Brian's site to avoid. We come hear to get away from that crap and hear the real deal on swing instruction and theory. I think it's possible to get as good information on equipment from people who have spent as long designing and fitting it, as Brian has spent teaching golfers in the trenches. For me that's Tom Wishon, but for sure there are other guru's. Why avoid the BS and illusions in one case, but accept them in another? I've only just realised this and am slowly clearing away the sh!t.
 

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
quote:
My belief is that, by itself, the shaft never adds to or costs clubhead speed. Golfers who experience changes in clubhead speed with nothing but a flex change, have done so due to a preference for the feel of that shaft over another, and how that affects their swing.

I disagree with you in both theory and in practice.

It's more how YOUR SWING effects the shaft. That's why there's a gazillion shafts out there that have so many different bend profiles.

I have a lot of experience in launch monitor fitting where i don't change anything but maybe a flex change and both clubhead speed and ball speed picks up simply because the way the golfer swings it's ideal for them. Maybe they are a maximum trigger delay snap releaser and swings at 100mph. So everyone put this guy into S flex shafts. But because of the max trigger delay and snap release he puts an aweful lot of load on the shaft so he needs something a little stiffer so the 'lag' doesn't 'run away' on him.

Conversely you've got someone who swings at 110 and they have a boat load of throwaway but he's a 2 handicap and won't take lessons. So he's been playing X flex his whole life but because of the throwaway he doesn't load it correctly so you have to go down in flex for the shaft to keep up with HIS SWING.

Very rarely will i see a golfer's swing change from a shaft change. The only time i tend to see that happen is when you significantly change swingweight or shaft weight. Such large changes could really effect timing, tempo, and rhythym and throw all kinds of things off.
 
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