Brian Manzella
Administrator
Stiffer goes longer if all golfer variables are the same.
Flex affecting length
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jim 0068 is correct in his analysis. If you clamp a shaft by the butt end in a vise with the clubface up and parallel with the ground and place a ball on top of the clubface and bend the shaft downward, then let go, the shaft with the most flex will catapult the ball at a higher speed and the furthest distance. If a golfer's swing doesn't bend the shaft, the shaft will not add clubhead speed. So, the outcome depends on how the golfer's swing bends the shaft.
So if i've understood you Jim, your experience(FAR greater than mine) tells you that the "loading" and "unloading" of the shaft can add to clubhead speed. How do you account for the fact that if a robot swings shafts of different flexes, the clubhead speed never changes? Shouldn't there be a shaft flex that matches the robots swing best and result in increased clubhead speed? Not trying to have a go mate. I've seen posts by Dana Upshaw, whom I also respect very much, and he also sees distance gains via small changes in flex.
Brian, your talking about the resistance to deceleration? During the .007, of impact, how much difference do you estimate that could make? Is this a fitting thing or just maths/physics/whatever?
Brian, your talking about the resistance to deceleration? During the .007, of impact, how much difference do you estimate that could make? Is this a fitting thing or just maths/physics/whatever?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
YIKES!!!!
Remember guys....
"with the SAME clubhead speed at impact."
Geez!
Remember guys....
"with the SAME clubhead speed at impact."
Geez!
Excellent post, nevermind!
The answer is yes, but the amount is governed by the way the player swings the club, as indicated in the previous post by jim_0068. Some players will flex the shaft very little and some will flex it quite a lot. That's one of the main reasons a player needs to be fitted for a set of clubs. The fitter needs to determine the type of clubhead and amount of clubface loft, plus determine the correct shaft flex and length that work best for an individual player for that particular clubhead. According to Theodore P. Jorgensen, in his book "The Physics of Golf", he estimates the gain in clubhead speed is only about 3%, so it's not a huge factor. Disregarding all other factors, the only way to influence ball speed is by changing the mass or the clubhead speed or both.Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
The robot puts the same load on the shaft everytime,same backswing, downswing, load, tempo, speed, EVERYTHING. Human's do not, that's the key. You need to find a shaft that flexes correctly for you the "majority" of the time.
It's kinda double edged sword. For instance a friend of mine can swing a golf club almost 130 if he wants too. Majority of the time he swings 117-120 and his driver is FITTED for that particular "swing." So whenever he "cranks it up" the ball GOES SHORTER! Why? He put too big of a load on that shaft for that speed and the shot balloons from too much spin.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Sure it will...depending on how it is setup some shafts will create better results than others.
However you cannot just take one head with one loft and put several different x flex shafts in it because every "x" flex isn't created equal.
Does that help?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
You can MEASURE clubhead speed with the "robot" and tune it to produce near identical MPH @ impact.
mandrin
New
MizunoJoe, the notion of the shaft 'kicking' at impact is long overdue. Intuitively this notion seems to be correct however does not correspond to reality.
It implies that the shaft acts as a spring and the club to behave a an oscillatory system. This notion is correct when clamping a club by the butt end in a vise but not true in an actual golfswing.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Mandrin,
Here are the facts:
Club shafts bend and unbend in many dimentions during the swing.
But they "Kick" different for each and every golfer.
Now the word "KICK" is just that— a word.
MizJoe means "TIME" and that is a stone fact.
So here ya go: Joe said "Because the primary function of shaft flex is to get the shaft to kick at the right time."
The correct version might be: "Because the primary function of shaft FREQENCY—for a particuclat MODEL of shaft— is to get the shaft to REACT to the golfer in such as way as to produce the desired ball flight, centered contact and feel."
Here are the facts:
Club shafts bend and unbend in many dimentions during the swing.
But they "Kick" different for each and every golfer.
Now the word "KICK" is just that— a word.
MizJoe means "TIME" and that is a stone fact.
So here ya go: Joe said "Because the primary function of shaft flex is to get the shaft to kick at the right time."
The correct version might be: "Because the primary function of shaft FREQENCY—for a particuclat MODEL of shaft— is to get the shaft to REACT to the golfer in such as way as to produce the desired ball flight, centered contact and feel."
mandrin
New
Brian, words and their associated meanings are important. ‘Kicking’ forward is normally employed by golfers in conjunction with ‘loading’ the shaft, and implying ‘unloading’ of the shaft.
Your definition is so vague and so all-encompassing that it appears as if written by a government employee, hence meaning whatever you want to read into it. [
]BTW, ‘FREQUENCY’ is a word implying a oscillatory system.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
"Your definition is so vague and so all-encompassing that it appears as if written by a government employee, hence meaning whatever you want to read into it. "
Vague?
Because the primary function of shaft FREQuENCY—for a particuclar MODEL of shaft— is to get the shaft to REACT to the golfer in such as way as to produce the desired ball flight, centered contact and feel."
I say—BRILLIANT!
Vague?
Because the primary function of shaft FREQuENCY—for a particuclar MODEL of shaft— is to get the shaft to REACT to the golfer in such as way as to produce the desired ball flight, centered contact and feel."
I say—BRILLIANT!
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