Flipper Question - Wrists......

[d0n]

After watching Confessions of a Flipper multiple times, I feel I've got my chips and short pitches cured of flipping. Still working on re-dialing the distances... I'm also working to hit full shots with a flat wrist. That brings me to my questions.

1. After impact on a full swing I can NOT keep my left wrist flat as I finish my swing. Is this normal?

2. After watching a couple of the Manzella videos it dawned on me that I didn't hear (more than likely I didn't pay attention) anything about cocking the wrists upward. There is a lot said (and maybe that's all I focused on) on bending the right wrist back but I don't recall anything on cocking the wrists upward. By upward I mean cocking your wrist so that the shaft goes from pointing downward to the shaft pointing upward so as to raise the actual clubhead off the ground and up toward the air.

 

[tank]

This should help

Here are a couple of videos that clearly illustrate the proper hinging of the wrists, and how they release past impact.

Part 1

Part 2

Hope this helps.

 

[d0n]

Here are a couple of videos that clearly illustrate the proper hinging of the wrists, and how they release past impact.

Part 1

Part 2

Hope this helps.

HA HA! It's VERY clear now! THANK YOU!!!

 

[Kevin Shields]

After watching Confessions of a Flipper multiple times, I feel I've got my chips and short pitches cured of flipping. Still working on re-dialing the distances... I'm also working to hit full shots with a flat wrist. That brings me to my questions.

1. After impact on a full swing I can NOT keep my left wrist flat as I finish my swing. Is this normal?

2. After watching a couple of the Manzella videos it dawned on me that I didn't hear (more than likely I didn't pay attention) anything about cocking the wrists upward. There is a lot said (and maybe that's all I focused on) on bending the right wrist back but I don't recall anything on cocking the wrists upward. By upward I mean cocking your wrist so that the shaft goes from pointing downward to the shaft pointing upward so as to raise the actual clubhead off the ground and up toward the air.

For question number 1. It is totally normal and quite acceptable to not keep it flat much past impact. Most good players' left wrists bend shortly after impact.

 

[d0n]

Okay, I watched both videos. They answered alot of questions I had about the wrist. I've got a very big living room and just spent about 30 minutes chipping in my living room. I noticed that I was closing the clubface at impact. I was able to see that my wrist was getting a little "wristy." I straightened it up and was making really GOOD contact with the ball. It actually doubled the carry I was previously getting and I was getting a little check on the ball with the same swing.

I hit some wiffle balls in my living room. I believe I know why my left wrist is bending - I'm not rotating my arms after impact. I tried doing it a couple more times and I hit some nice stingers. Unfortunetly it's raining so I don't think the range will be open anytime soon to try this out on some real balls.

This is a REALLY good forum!

 

[d0n]

EPIPHANY!!!! I was just playing around with a towel (Confessions of a Flipper) and remembered something Martin Hall was saying and Brian was demonstrating and I figured it out.... I always thought that the club had to unload completely at impact. I've been trying to unload my wrist at impact - completely unload my wrist. My left wrist had no choice but to fold over.

Now I just need to recondition my swing and get this down...

 

[tank]

Okay, I watched both videos. They answered alot of questions I had about the wrist. I've got a very big living room and just spent about 30 minutes chipping in my living room. I noticed that I was closing the clubface at impact. I was able to see that my wrist was getting a little "wristy." I straightened it up and was making really GOOD contact with the ball. It actually doubled the carry I was previously getting and I was getting a little check on the ball with the same swing.

I hit some wiffle balls in my living room. I believe I know why my left wrist is bending - I'm not rotating my arms after impact. I tried doing it a couple more times and I hit some nice stingers. Unfortunetly it's raining so I don't think the range will be open anytime soon to try this out on some real balls.

This is a REALLY good forum!

I find it really helps me to concentrate more on keeping the right wrist bent through impact and follow through rather than keeping the left wrist flat.

Also, as someone who has struggled with flipping, I highly recommend the "NSA 2.0" video (don't let the name deceive you, slicing is only one of the many things it helps with). This video goes into great detail to explain how the hands/wrists should work through the entire swing.

If you have it, watch it again. If you don't have it, go get it.

 

[tank]

For question number 1. It is totally normal and quite acceptable to not keep it flat much past impact. Most good players' left wrists bend shortly after impact.

Really? That surprises me. Can you point to videos that illustrate this?

 

[JeffM]

Doubled

What characterizes a good golfer is the fact that the left wrist doesn't bend after impact.

Note Ernie Els' flat left wrist.

In fact, the left wrist remains flat well into the late followthrough, and it can remain flat even when the arms reach shoulder height in the followthrough - see photo of Nick Faldo below.

Jeff.

 

[holeout]

Jeff

Not so sure you should be so absolute with your post. The left wrist bends after impact in some good swings, especially into the swivel where you see a lot of guys with very flat right/bent left wrists. Immediately after impact the wrist perhaps stays pretty flat, but any further and it's dependent on the player.

 

[tank]

Jeff

Not so sure you should be so absolute with your post. The left wrist bends after impact in some good swings, especially into the swivel where you see a lot of guys with very flat right/bent left wrists. Immediately after impact the wrist perhaps stays pretty flat, but any further and it's dependent on the player.

Maybe it's just a matter of semantics, but to have a bent left wrist "shortly after impact" or "Immediately after impact" would seem to require some throwaway or flip action through impact. Unless the intention is to play some sort of lob shot, wouldn't that be a loss of efficiency.

I believe that after the swing gets beyond the release point, and into the swivel, the bent left wrist is of little significance.

If I'm wrong, please explain.

 

[sweetser]

I believe that after the swing gets beyond the release point, and into the swivel, the bent left wrist is of little significance.

I don't know about that... when a tour pro hits a holder cut you can tell by the swivel and follow through, they are holding the left wrist firm, keeping it from turning over. Looks like what Faldo is doing in the pic. In a full golf swing, post-impact, I think the left wrist has its own little release. If it didn't then how could you consciously hold it off in the follow through?

 

[tank]

I don't know about that... when a tour pro hits a holder cut you can tell by the swivel and follow through, they are holding the left wrist firm, keeping it from turning over. Looks like what Faldo is doing in the pic. In a full golf swing, post-impact, I think the left wrist has its own little release. If it didn't then how could you consciously hold it off in the follow through?

Now I didn't say that it was of no significance.

I agree with you that (without any manipulation) the "shape" of the swivel will reflect the actions that occurred prior to that point in the swing.

However, after the arms reach shoulder height, and if you wanted to, or needed to (because of an obstruction like a low hanging tree branch or whatever), you could still hit a normal shot with a funky swivel.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Doubled

What characterizes a good golfer is the fact that the left wrist doesn't bend after impact.

Note Ernie Els' flat left wrist.

In fact, the left wrist remains flat well into the late followthrough, and it can remain flat even when the arms reach shoulder height in the followthrough - see photo of Nick Faldo below.

Jeff.

Jeff, look at the pictures of Faldo from that book from overhead. You'll clearly see that his left wrist bends. It re-flattens later in his swing. Check any picture of Garcia, Daly, Price, and yes, Els and their left wrist bends shortly after impact. It's a fact.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Maybe it's just a matter of semantics, but to have a bent left wrist "shortly after impact" or "Immediately after impact" would seem to require some throwaway or flip action through impact. Unless the intention is to play some sort of lob shot, wouldn't that be a loss of efficiency.

I believe that after the swing gets beyond the release point, and into the swivel, the bent left wrist is of little significance.

If I'm wrong, please explain.

Since it is been posted on this forum that the clubhead acts as if it is being thrown off the shaft, then a flat left wrist past impact, or anything past impact for that matter, shouldn't be important at all, should it? Jeff has referenced the "pingman", or even Mandrin's "Herbert" model, and they both re-hinge shortly after impact. Brian has stated numerous times that alot of good swings don't keep the shaft up the left arm past impact. You can roll the wrist, like Els, or let it bend, like Hogan or Garcia.

 

[Kevin Shields]

I don't know about that... when a tour pro hits a holder cut you can tell by the swivel and follow through, they are holding the left wrist firm, keeping it from turning over. Looks like what Faldo is doing in the pic. In a full golf swing, post-impact, I think the left wrist has its own little release. If it didn't then how could you consciously hold it off in the follow through?

What I think is being missed is that this is essentially an impact to separation issue. I've watched Brian hit full roll swivel FADES. It only matters what the face and shaft are doing at separation. Let your left wrist do whatever it wants or needs to do past impact. It doesn't matter at all.

 

[tank]

Since it is been posted on this forum that the clubhead acts as if it is being thrown off the shaft, then a flat left wrist past impact, or anything past impact for that matter, shouldn't be important at all, should it? Jeff has referenced the "pingman", or even Mandrin's "Herbert" model, and they both re-hinge shortly after impact. Brian has stated numerous times that alot of good swings don't keep the shaft up the left arm past impact. You can roll the wrist, like Els, or let it bend, like Hogan or Garcia.

I don't know enough to say that you are definitely wrong, but I really would like to see some proof of this.

IMO, coming through impact with the hands leading the club-head, while correctly uncocking your left wrist, while correctly pivoting or turning your body (the things that all good players do) ... makes it tough to flip past impact.

 

[Kevin Shields]

I don't know enough to say that you are definitely wrong, but I really would like to see some proof of this.

IMO, coming through impact with the hands leading the club-head, while correctly uncocking your left wrist, while correctly pivoting or turning your body (the things that all good players do) ... makes it tough to flip past impact.

Tank,I think you're right. But don't think of it as a flip, or something negative. I don't want to sound like i know everything, either. Just find any swing sequence of any good player, or tour player, and there is a better than average chance the left wrist is bent before it reaches hip height in the follow thru.
I would explain it like this. Most good players snap their chain really well. Their pivot sends their swings down and out to the bottom. Face and path and degree of lean for the shot at hand determine the flight. Energy is released with such force that the left wrist bends and the right wrist flattens even if they resist. When the swing "runs out of gas" they catch it and sometimes reflatten the wrist. Sorry I don't know how to post pics,but any swing sequence should show this clearly.

 

[flapro]

Left wrist must be flat, right wrist must be hinged-its called lag.
Cocking of the wrist is different than hinging of the wrist. The left wrist cocks and the right wrist hinges.

 

[sweetser]

What I think is being missed is that this is essentially an impact to separation issue. I've watched Brian hit full roll swivel FADES. It only matters what the face and shaft are doing at separation. Let your left wrist do whatever it wants or needs to do past impact. It doesn't matter at all.

I agree with you that the left wrist breaks post impact. In terms of the separation issue, yeah the ball is gone, I understand. But envisioning and then executing a certain type of followthrough can certainly assist in achieving a desired shot shape. You don't agree with this?