flipping

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shootin4par

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I am having trouble flipping and I am having a hard time figguring out what is causing it. I have been looking at video and from what I can tell my elbow plane loops, my right elbow goes above the plane on the backswing and in the transition drops below it, then returns to the set up plane about half way down. I also notice that in my swing I dont get extension away from the body after the shot. If you look from behind, going fram by frame, in my six iron shot you see no space/light between my hands/lower arms and my body on the frame immediately after impact. Also, I can easily make the club swoosh one foot or more after normal ball position if I hold th club a foot off the ground, but if I drop it to the ground and swing there it is at the ball or behind. furthermore, if I do have forward shaft lean at impact with a lower ball flight I do not get the distance I should. For reference purposes I used to hit 5 irons 190+ on normal swings and could go up to 200 if I ripped at it. Now it is hard to get 180. Driver carry was once as far as 285 on good swings and the spin rate would allow some roll now 255-260 is my carry and the ball baloons, no roll. I can currently swing a speed stick, maybe not 100% accurate but somewhere close, between 125 very easy, and 135 if I go all out.
 
c21heel

c21heel

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shootin4par, you might be over-swinging (don't get this confused with over-turning). If you don't fully turn you shoulders, you may have a tendency to lift your right elbow or bend the left arm to a point that feels like a complete turn. I have this problem as well, in fact, I tend to raise my head a lot.

What works for me is to take the hands only as high as my right shoulder, then make sure I complete my swing with a full shoulder turn.

rwh has a good explanation of this under another topic (does TGM recommend a short backswing).
 
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shootin4par

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quote:Originally posted by c21heel

shootin4par, you might be over-swinging (don't get this confused with over-turning). If you don't fully turn you shoulders, you may have a tendency to lift your right elbow or bend the left arm to a point that feels like a complete turn. I have this problem as well, in fact, I tend to raise my head a lot.

What works for me is to take the hands only as high as my right shoulder, then make sure I complete my swing with a full shoulder turn.
Click to expand...
thanks for the reply, in response to that I turn my shoulders more than ninety on the backswing, about 100*, but the club does not go past parrallel, stops just short at the top.
 
c21heel

c21heel

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shootin4par, do you have the confessions of a former flipper video? It is only $9.99 (if I remember correctly) to download.
 
Erik_K

Erik_K

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When I flip it normally because I am steep coming down. On the video, is your right hip getting in the way. From down the line, look at your right hip. If you are unwinding early, then your upperbdy climbs 'over'- it has to. You left your arms no place to go but on a much steeper path and often this is combined with a cast or early release.
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
I have a theory....

If you pivot correctly, on the downswing, it's impossible to flip at it. You can try to but it won't happen.

I find that if you don't use my pivot and lower body correctly and/or it slows down....the upper body and arms come on through and the clubhead overtakes the hands.

Anyone with me?
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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Vijay (Singh) talks about something like that.

I can see a point in it.

If you "use up" your pivot too early....it does seem easier to flip.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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quote:Originally posted by c21heel
What works for me is to take the hands only as high as my right shoulder, then make sure I complete my swing with a full shoulder turn.

rwh has a good explanation of this under another topic (does TGM recommend a short backswing).
Click to expand...

This has helped me too.

Crank up the Extensor Action....shorten the swing.....tighten the swing.

Extensor Action adds structure....which effectively adds mass to your Impact....more compression.

Not sure if this is exactly what you need to help your flipping problem but E.A. is a very good thing.

-Paul

BTW- Shootin,

Did you hit the ball higher when you were hitting it further? You say you do have forward shaft lean and are hitting it very low now.....try for some axis tilt maybe. Helped me.
 
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shootin4par

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paul,
right now I do not hit it low, just sometimes recemtly while experimenting to try and figure it out I have. Actually right now I hit it very high, When I hit it long before it was almost as high but reached the apex much later, with a more penetrating ball flight. You men crank up the EA action in the set up? And sorry for the newbie question but EA is the right hand tug at address, correct?
 
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MizunoJoe

New
Solution - get everything past the ball at impact except the right foot and right shoulder, and try to hit the ball down into the ground at a 45 deg angle.

By the way, I don't know how accurate the speed stick is, but if you can actually generate 125-135 mph clubhead speed with a driver, you have an edge over most tour players.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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quote:Originally posted by shootin4par

You men crank up the EA action in the set up? And sorry for the newbie question but EA is the right hand tug at address, correct?
Click to expand...

Don't worry, no noob questions here. I was new once too.

....

No not in the setup man.

It's just a constant tugging on the left arm to keep it taught (if you were wearing a long sleeve shirt- keep the left shirt sleeve taught through out the swing). If your swing is very long right now it will feel quite a bit shorter....maybe even restrictive (until you get used to it).

Left arm tightens....but wrists still stay loose...left forearm still Swivels (if you're a Swinger, which you must be with that long swing you say you have).

I think it pretty much serves to add structure to the left arm (which will restrict swing length to the length "it should be"...."ideally," if you know what I mean).....also regulates the rate of clubface opening/closing too...keeps it consistent.

Something you prolly wanna fool around with.
 
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shootin4par

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MJ, not saying I swing a driver that fast but to get the speed stick to 125 is very easy for me and swinging all out I get it 135. I used to carry range balls 285 on good days and frequently had days where i would hit 5 or so drives at 300+ during a round. That is why I have been frustrated at golf for the last year or so, because I lost 30+ yards and cannot play into a headwind of more then 10 mph without taking 3 extra clubs. enough about all that, onto the findings

So I put it on tape with john and he looked at it. The answer is, flying wedges, and much more!!!! SO here is what happens, currently I am a rotary swinger where I NEVER have hands controlled pivot. I also loose spine angle before impact and therefore MUST straighten everything out to get down to the ball with the club. THe club passes my hands very early in the follow through.

The cool thing was that he put a shaft in the ground in front of me and I had to make sure that I missed the shaft on the follow through. This stops the clubhead from passing the hands. Well He had me take some practice swings with it there and put that on tape and guess what????? I had flying wedges, and a whole lot of other things allinged. Now I know what I can work on and the drill will take some time but at least it is figured out.
 
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shootin4par

New
draw a line from my toes and extend towards target, draw a line from the ball and extend towards target. about 3 feet down the toe line and move over six inches towards ball line, place shaft there.
 
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rundmc

Banned
quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

"THe club passes my hands very early in the follow through."

This player had the same "problem".

http://www.golfswing.com/proswings/jones.htm

It's only a problem if it happens before separation. A full free release is much more important than keeping the shaft up the left arm in the follow through.
Click to expand...

Joe,

Has Jones bent the Left Wrist after separation or just Rolled? Looks like his left hand is pretty Turned at address.

Could you define Free Release?

Thanks!

R
 
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MizunoJoe

New
Even at 4 frames past impact there is no left arm roll - the left wrist is bending.

A free release is allowing CF to cause the in-line condition without interference. Jones called it "free-wheeling".
 
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shootin4par

New
MJ, I can see where a previous post mislead you. I should have said the clubhead passes my hands right before, during, or right after impact. In the other post I said that it passed very early in the follow through, I wish that were true because it usually happens before that. I have no forward shaft lean at impact. By doing that one drill it changed a lot. It actually changed where my hips where at impact, putting them in a much better position, along with adding flying wedges, just a lot of things in a much better position.
 
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