Footage of Sergio's Tumble

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lia41985

lia41985

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3 different angles--pictures and videos. We're looking at tumble, whereby the shaft steepens and the face closes.

PICTURES
Click the following link to see a slideshow:
Sergio's Tumble

VIDEOS
Rear, down-the-line view:
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UCdDmeCAT7M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Front, down-the-line view:
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/r2ctNmr5wpo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
45 degrees right of face-on view:
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/NJxqC9-pm5M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
To tumble the club the golfer needs to put a positive torque on it. Sergio starts pouring on the torque at what some term "P5". I don't care about the position per se but when the left arm is parallel to the ground this is a point at which the golfer is adding force to the golf club. This force is torque that aids in the tumbling of the club. Sometimes that force comes from the right arm adding a "force across the shaft." I would venture to say that this is the case for the "Nickalus model"-type swing which would have the club fairly vertical when the left arm is so situated. However, that's not the case with Sergio, whose swing fits the "Hogan model." I'm again going to venture and say that in these type of swings that when the left arm is parallel to the ground, the club isn't yet vertical and therefore it's too soon at this point (again, with this type of swing) to add force across the shaft.

So what's Sergio doing to tumble the club? Nick Faldo offers up his take (which I agree with): YouTube - Sergio Garcia iron from 250 yeards

Did you hear when he said "as he pulls the club down...right shoulder chasing after it"?

Here's Lindsey Newman's take which is in accord with what Nick and I are saying:
Lindsey Newman said:
If you look at the most envied swings, you will typically see super vert hand paths coming down that allow the player to steepen the shaft/face combination as much as they want. They have zero concerns of skanking it or hitting it steep. They typically have a more neutral grip so the shaft can tumble as much as they want without fear of a hook. Players with good hand paths have a few of options on how they tumble the shaft/clubface combo.

Option 1 - Hogan - ish, Sergio - they have a model or low left arm position at the top and a great closed counterfall transition which puts them WAY DOWN close to the original shaft plane LINE early. From there this type of player uses both hands and right shoulder to steepen the shaft back into the ball while also squaring the face.
Click to expand...
 
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curtisj76

curtisj76

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I think I FINALLY figured this out last week and I think this is going to improve my game more than anything. Would this statement be correct: If you learn to tumble the correct way you will learn to lag the sweetspot (and not the hosel) AND be more on plane (rather than below plane) AND start taking more of a divot?
 
curtisj76

curtisj76

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PS

Lia, if you haven't figured it out yet, YOU are an ASSET to this forum. Thank you for your time and dedication to this game and you should ask Brian for a "raise". :)
 
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jbrunk

New
curtisj76 said:
I think I FINALLY figured this out last week and I think this is going to improve my game more than anything. Would this statement be correct: If you learn to tumble the correct way you will learn to lag the sweetspot (and not the hosel) AND be more on plane (rather than below plane) AND start taking more of a divot?
Click to expand...

I don't think that is correct. You have to do some things in the transition that set you up for a good tumble. Or maybe that was just me, trying to tumble from the top all the way through 10 penalty shots in 5 rounds last year.
 
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spktho

New
jbrunk said:
I don't think that is correct. You have to do some things in the transition that set you up for a good tumble. Or maybe that was just me, trying to tumble from the top all the way through 10 penalty shots in 5 rounds last year.
Click to expand...

I agree. I think Kevin called it reverse tumble at the transition. I would think too much tumble with the Nicklaus model swing would definitely bring the left side in play.
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
curtisj76 said:
I think I FINALLY figured this out last week and I think this is going to improve my game more than anything. Would this statement be correct: If you learn to tumble the correct way you will learn to lag the sweetspot (and not the hosel) AND be more on plane (rather than below plane) AND start taking more of a divot?
Click to expand...

Yes yes and yes. Yes!!!!
 
T

Tball88

New
I think I must be missing something because there seems to be a lot of talk on here about tumble. I conceptually understand the idea of tumble, but if tumble doesn't happen you're going to flat miss the ball. I mean everyone has to tumble to some degree, or they wouldn't even make contact.

I guess, I'm struggling with how the idea of how tumbling can make you a better golfer. Good setup, good clubface control, good path, and the tumble should take care of itself, right?

What am I missing.
 
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ej20

New
What I see with Sergio is that he has a super laid off shaft somewhere at the top or in the transition,therefore he needs to tumble otherwise his path would be so far right it would be unplayable.

How about someone who is a bit across the line at the top?Would you see any tumble in this type of swing?
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
ej20 said:
What I see with Sergio is that he has a super laid off shaft somewhere at the top or in the transition,therefore he needs to tumble otherwise his path would be so far right it would be unplayable.

How about someone who is a bit across the line at the top?Would you see any tumble in this type of swing?
Click to expand...

Daly and Carl Peterssen come to mind. Both have tons of tumble
 
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ej20

New
Kevin Shields said:
Daly and Carl Peterssen come to mind. Both have tons of tumble
Click to expand...

Peterssen doesn't look to me to be a across the line that much and he does lay the club off in the transition.He gets the club pointing outside the target line very early in his downswing so it won't surprise me he needs some tumble into impact.

Daly doesn't look to me that he tumbles at all,at least not like how Sergio does it.

YouTube - Compare Daly - Holmes
 
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ej20

New
I am not against the tumble.I think it is a very good thing but other parts of the swing must fit in with it.In my opinion,you need a laid off transition to use it.I can't see how it can work with a steep transition.
 
gmbtempe

gmbtempe

New
There is something to the tumble move, I will have to study it more to understand it.

Today on the range a friend of mine who knows many of the GTE's here looked at my swing and gave me an idea that I had not heard before. I bring the club down from the top to much behind (no carry) and from the inside and often lag the hosel. I compensate with a strong grip and a relatively timed flip to get that face square.

Today he showed me if I work the handle of the club correctly the clubhead will naturally tumble over. It did. Was not below plane at all. It felt like I would hook it but when I trusted it the shots were extremely well struck, even for the lofty standards of this forum.

I don't really understand it all so I need to do some reading but there is something to it.
 
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