For Brian and the other Instructors

[TROYNYGOLFER]

I hope I did not violate thread protocol, but I though something Brian addressed elsewhere led me to expand the topic.

......................

What is Real Golf Teaching?

It starts with watching the student and asking questions...

The teacher needs to watch the contact, the ball flight, the clubface, the Left Arm Flying Wedge, hand path, and pivot....but he might need less of these.

The teacher then needs to DIG IN AND CHANGE THINGS, but only those that effect the D-Plane and contact, unless there needs to be a side-step.

Knowing how much time you have, FIX THEM now, and don't bastardize.

And then, if the student approves, keep doing it.

OK, Brian, excellent presentation on how to conduct an individual lesson. However, I infer from many sudents on your forum, that many of us have long term goals, and want to set up a plan for how to get there. In my case, I am a 5.2 and I really want to see a 1.0 or less after my name. Here are the issies I am wrestling with:
1) Should I be taking periodic on-hour lessons, or are multi-hours lessons the way to go?
2) Should having a Trackman be a sine qua non for choosing an instructor?
3) Until I was shut down by injuries, I was dying to send my instructor, John Graham multiple videos of my devlopment, but always felt guilty that I would be taking time from his business and research. What do other instructors feel about this?
4) Is there a general rule of them as to what percentage of the lessons should be dedicated to the shortgame/putting versus the long game?
5) Do you or the other instrcutors or experts (think Richie3jack) believe that taking a periodic lesson from another instructor is good simply to get a different perspective?
6) Do any students who have been down this road have some insight they would be willing to relate to us?

Any info will be greatfully appreciated.

Dan

 

[vjsinger]

As a new inexperienced golfer that really has no clue what it's like to really struggle in this game yet, I'll give it a stab. Even though the subject heading didn't invite me to do so
1) Depends. How's your short game?
2) Nope. Not if you understand the D-plane fairly well, BUT MOST importantly understand YOUR swing and shot pattern VERY VERY WELL.
3) No Clue.
4) In your case, since you're aleady a 5. I'd bet you need more time on short game and pulling the right club at the right time.
5) Disagree. Learn YOUR SWING and YOUR SHOT PATTERN and learn how to fix YOUR issues on the course and you'll be fine.
6) Work Hard at it and work extra hard and learning how to get the ball in the hole in fewer shots.i.e. PLAY GOLF ALOT.

Hope this helps.

 

[Kevin Shields]

A 5 looking to be a 1 nedds to do a complete examination of your entire approach from 100 yds and in......unless it was your short game that made you a 5

 

[GPM1985]

6) Do any students who have been down this road have some insight they would be willing to relate to us?

You have to become as self-sufficient as possible. When you do get a lesson, pay attention to what your instructor is telling you about your game. You have to know what to do and how to do it. A good instructor should be able to tell you both of these things (and others), but it's your responsibility to absorb that information and later use it to self-correct.

I struggled with my swing this summer, and it sucked at times, but I eventually figured it out. It'll be that much easier to fix the next time things go haywire. You need to know your swing. It can't be somebody else's domain.

 

[Jon Hardesty]

A good look at your mental approach to the game always helps.

 

[Richie3Jack]

1) Should I be taking periodic on-hour lessons, or are multi-hours lessons the way to go?

I think you can do fine with periodic one-hour lessons. My suggestion is find a good teacher, and then when you go to the range video tape yourself each time so you can make sure that you are doing what your latest instruction had you do or you are on the right path.

2) Should having a Trackman be a sine qua non for choosing an instructor?

No, plenty of great instructors have never had Trackman. Trackman just helps a ton, but if you're a lousy instructor it ain't going to help.

3) Until I was shut down by injuries, I was dying to send my instructor, John Graham multiple videos of my devlopment, but always felt guilty that I would be taking time from his business and research. What do other instructors feel about this?

I would think most don't have too much of an issue. Depends on how busy they are and the relationship you have with the instructor. I probably wouldn't do it with a guy I've only had 1 or 2 lessons with.

4) Is there a general rule of them as to what percentage of the lessons should be dedicated to the shortgame/putting versus the long game?

Some will say you should split it 50/50, but if you look at the statistics that correlate to scoring avg. on the PGA Tour, they are mostly ballstriking oriented. So improving your handicap means you're going to have to hit more GIR (unless you're the rare case of hitting say 12-15 GIR and being a horrific putter).

5) Do you or the other instrcutors or experts (think Richie3jack) believe that taking a periodic lesson from another instructor is good simply to get a different perspective?

Thanks for complimenting me with being 'an expert' although I just think of myself as a dude who has experienced a lot of the same troubles that golfers are going thru.

I really don't think seeing another instructor is all that bad of an idea. If you're 'stuck' to a certain point and don't seem to improve in that area, going to a different, but good instructor to get a new perspective can help. The only negative is that if you currently go to a good instructor you lose that familiarity that you have with each other and that is pretty important.

6) Do any students who have been down this road have some insight they would be willing to relate to us?

The big step for me was that I realized that I am the type that really needs to understand everything about the swing...be it the physics, geometry or biomechanics of the swing in order to reach my potential. Basically I felt that when I didn't understand everything I would actually get myself into more trouble.

For instance, I would look at say Ben Hogan's swing and say 'well, I got to do that because Hogan did it.' And then I would fail miserably. Then I would look at somebody like Tom Watson, and again...fail miserably. Or with D-Plane I would see a divot go slightly to the left and see the ball go straight at the target and think that the divot should go straight at the target.

In other words, knowledge created simplicity for me. Instead of guessing and continuing to tinker, I more or less have a far better idea of what to focus on and what to avoid.

That's a far different concept from the way most people want to improve which is more or less simplifying things and not caring about knowledge. I think what happens with most people is that they can't get any better if they don't know what is really going on.

Everybody would love to be Fred Couples or John Daly, but those are rare individuals who more or less can 'grip it and rip it.' For the rest of us mere mortals I just think we need to gain more knowledge so we can simplify things for us.






3JACK

 

[TROYNYGOLFER]

As a new inexperienced golfer that really has no clue what it's like to really struggle in this game yet, I'll give it a stab. Even though the subject heading didn't invite me to do so
hole in fewer shots.i.e. PLAY GOLF ALOT.

VJ, Although I did not "formally invite you in the hesding, if you review the body of the letter, you were one of the guys I had in mind to to hear from. Thanks, Phana. BTW, I was considering writing a letter to my congressman to make it illegal to progress from a beginner to a 6 in one year.

 

[vjsinger]

TROY,

Just pulling your chain, but if you are serious about involving congress, I have a few ideas on "health care" that I wouldn't mind being passed along Back to the subject at hand...I've heard instructors having a long game handicap, and a short game handicap to measure their students skills. I really like this idea and think that all instructors who have "regulars" should require, no matter the skill level, that all of their players do this. A really good book was written on a skills game test/challenge to determine the short game handi. Just something else to chew on...

 

[GPM1985]

I've heard instructors having a long game handicap, and a short game handicap to measure their students skills. I really like this idea and think that all instructors who have "regulars" should require, no matter the skill level, that all of their players do this. A really good book was written on a skills game test/challenge to determine the short game handi. Just something else to chew on...

I'll play devil's advocate here and say "screw handicaps." Beyond their function as qualification for tournament entry, I think they're pretty useless.

Having separate handicaps for the "long" and "short" games also doesn't sit too well with me. Where's the cut-off for long game? A guy with a superior long game will probably have a better short game, statistically, because he'll hit more greens, hit it closer to the pin, and keep himself out of situations where some heroic low-percentage shot is needed to save par.

Just work on your short game a lot. There's no need to assign arbitrary quantities and complicate a simple concept. You'll go through phases where your ball-striking is really good and you'll be able to devote a lot of time to the short game. You'll also go through phases where your ball-striking sucks and you need to spend more time ironing out your swing.

Play it by ear and make adjustments as you see fit. Be case-specific about your game and avoid becoming bound by silly tenets.

 

[vjsinger]

I'll play devil's advocate here and say "screw handicaps." Beyond their function as qualification for tournament entry, I think they're pretty useless.

Having separate handicaps for the "long" and "short" games also doesn't sit too well with me. Where's the cut-off for long game? A guy with a superior long game will probably have a better short game, statistically, because he'll hit more greens, hit it closer to the pin, and keep himself out of situations where some heroic low-percentage shot is needed to save par.

Just work on your short game a lot. There's no need to assign arbitrary quantities and complicate a simple concept. You'll go through phases where your ball-striking is really good and you'll be able to devote a lot of time to the short game. You'll also go through phases where your ball-striking sucks and you need to spend more time ironing out your swing.

Play it by ear and make adjustments as you see fit. Be case-specific about your game and avoid becoming bound by silly tenets.

How do you recommend someone go about working on their short game a lot? What games would you have a student play to avoid boredom and keep their focus on the task at hand?

 

[GPM1985]

How do you recommend someone go about working on their short game a lot? What games would you have a student play to avoid boredom and keep their focus on the task at hand?

Does the student in question have a variety of short game shots? What shots can he hit? What shots can't he hit? Does he have to basic motions, or does he need to learn his way around the Manzella short game matrix?

These are important questions. Let's use Troy as an example. I don't know Troy, and I've never seen him play, but let's assume that, as a 5 handicap, he has technically sound putting, chipping and pitching motions. Let's also assume that he can hit a decent mid-sole pitch. Now we have something to work with. He has skills to practice, whereas a rank novice will have to devote more time and effort to learning the skills.

Okay, so Troy has an acceptable level of short game skill. What games should he play?

I like the game where you take a ball over to the practice green, toss it up in the air and try to get up and down from wherever it landed. Then throw it in a bunker. Throw it in shaggy rough. Throw it on some wood chips. Throw it behind some bushes. Throw it on some mud. Throw it on a cart path. Throw the ball in as many different spots as possible, and soon it will become clear which skills are adequately developed and which need improvement (or acquirement).

It's really not the instructor's responsibility to come up with some gimmicky game in order to prevent the student from becoming bored. The mature student should realize that it is necessary to practice all aspects of the game, even the ones that don't provide a big adrenaline rush. The desire to improve should be enough to stave off any boredom. Do work, get better.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

How do you recommend someone go about working on their short game a lot? What games would you have a student play to avoid boredom and keep their focus on the task at hand?

Bring a friend

 

[GPM1985]

Bring a friend

Jim, you have a flair for brevity. I admire that.

A friend, with some money, who likes to gamble. Great golf partners, these are.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Jim, you have a flair for brevity. I admire that.

A friend, with some money, who likes to gamble. Great golf partners, these are.

Part of it is because my life is super busy right now, just don't have the time for elaborate answers. lol.

So i am keeping it short and making it count!

 

[vjsinger]

It's really not the instructor's responsibility to come up with some gimmicky game in order to prevent the student from becoming bored. The mature student should realize that it is necessary to practice all aspects of the game, even the ones that don't provide a big adrenaline rush. The desire to improve should be enough to stave off any boredom. Do work, get better.

Getting results is all that matters. If the student comes to you, has no idea how to practice, is a talented student and wants to get better and, as you would call it a "gimmicky game" helps him improve, why does it matter what he does? If you tell him to, "Grow up, and get a stronger work ethic because you'll never get better if you don't". Well, to me that doesn't work. People, young and old, nowadays have so much on their plates. People are much more well rounded these days and they need to be efficient with their time. They need certain levels of stimulation and need to find ways to marked improvement in shorter periods of time now more than ever. It is the responsibility of the instructor to keep the student interested in the game and to keep the student improving. It is also the responsibility at some point for the instructor and the student to evaluate a students progress and come up with new and sometimes inventive ways to spice up practice. Golf instructors should bag the term "golf instructor" and adopt Golf coach. I think that is a more accurate description of what the job really should entail.

 

[GPM1985]

You've turned the student into a completely passive agent by relieving him of his obligation to remain alert and attentive. As far as I can tell, you seem to be implying that the student's responsibilities extend no further than simply showing up to the lesson.

A good instructor will "stimulate" the student by fixing whatever is wrong with the student's game, and fixing it fast. A good instructor will give the student drills to work on. The student's attention will be a byproduct of a good lesson.

You have some strong beliefs regarding the breadth of a golf instructor's responsibility. I'm interested to hear some of them weigh in.

I will agree with you that people are more well-rounded these days, and that they have a lot on their plates. This country is eating its way to levels of obesity, cardiovascular disease, and type II diabetes that are unheard of anywhere else in the world.

 

[TROYNYGOLFER]

Thank You

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I really appreciate your taking the time to help me. Maybe in a year or two, i will be ready to give VJ a match

 

[TROYNYGOLFER]

Thank You

I want to thank you all for your suggestions. I sincerely appreciate you taking your time to help.

 

[ggsjpc]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I really appreciate your taking the time to help me. Maybe in a year or two, i will be ready to give VJ a match

It will be sooner than that!

 

[TROYNYGOLFER]

It will be sooner than that!

Sitting here with my left elbow in a sling, my right elbow in a brace, popping demerol like TicTacs, my confidence is not exactly overflowing. However, I vaguely recall geting a very nice bonus at our business meeting on Saturday. 8 mgs of Xanax does not do a lot for mental focus.