Look I`m just average golfer with average intelligence. I find it hard to understand what most talk about. I do however understand that most teach differently. I started late in life (56) and now at 72 still confused about the golf swing. I had many so called teachers teach me the last 16 yrs one was a top 100 teacher(the worst of all). Open the door close the door,take it more inside, keep your left foot down, do this and that. Hell all the books say that who needs a teacher that reads a book and tells me what it said. When most of you teach a real good golfer it doesnt take much to make him better. Its guys like me that will make you better teaches, thats only if you can improve my game to were one want it to be. Guys like Brian if there are more like him is what golf needs and this is why I hang around his site. This is comming from guys you(not pinpointing anyone here) teach that dont get better..JMO
For teachers only
- Thread starter joeparr
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Monitoring my students progress is of prime importance to me.
My policy is "You pay me what you think our time was worth."
If you don't see improvement with me, you don't have to pay a dime. You'd be surprised at the reaction from my new students to this policy. They look at me like I must have lost my mind.
In fact the reaction proves a point.
If you don't charge $80 or $100 they start to wonder if you're credible. I see it time and time again. I've lost some students because of a bad lesson. And I'm constantly learning to monitor myself.... but I find more often than not they've come back to me in a few months after trying to work with a high priced instructor.
I'm really focussing on learning from the student. Asking them questions. It's so easy to get into the trap of telling the student all of my ideas and trying to just hammer it into them, being brash and forceful. But no one wants to learn that way. True learning is through discovery... not teacher and chalkboard. People OWN what they learn through their own experience, otherwise it's just information. So that is the skill I am trying to develop.... successfully or unsuccessfully.
I think your experience joe is one of teachers that think it is their job to fill you with knowledge. A very ineffectual way of getting the job done in my experience.
My policy is "You pay me what you think our time was worth."
If you don't see improvement with me, you don't have to pay a dime. You'd be surprised at the reaction from my new students to this policy. They look at me like I must have lost my mind.
In fact the reaction proves a point.
If you don't charge $80 or $100 they start to wonder if you're credible. I see it time and time again. I've lost some students because of a bad lesson. And I'm constantly learning to monitor myself.... but I find more often than not they've come back to me in a few months after trying to work with a high priced instructor.
I'm really focussing on learning from the student. Asking them questions. It's so easy to get into the trap of telling the student all of my ideas and trying to just hammer it into them, being brash and forceful. But no one wants to learn that way. True learning is through discovery... not teacher and chalkboard. People OWN what they learn through their own experience, otherwise it's just information. So that is the skill I am trying to develop.... successfully or unsuccessfully.
I think your experience joe is one of teachers that think it is their job to fill you with knowledge. A very ineffectual way of getting the job done in my experience.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
All of my studensts call me Mini-Manzelli.
I've learned all that i know of HOW TO TEACH from Brian. My knowledge of the swing has come from him and several others.
I guarrantee 2 things in ALL of my lessons:
1) You wil NEVER EVER leave my lesson hitting it worst, you will ALWAYS leave it hitting it better then whence you came
2) YOU WILL HIT at least once (i usually get more) properly struck ball that flies relatively straight at your target (might fade/draw slightly) with no bastardization in your lesson.
These are my goals that i set in every lesson and i have yet to fail. Better players it's easier of course but even the hackers i get to do it.
For those of you who are lurking on this site and don't post and see other teachers if they can't do the above 2 things GO SEE SOMEONE ELSE WHO CAN.
For those of you who are TEACHERS and are lurking on this site and can't do the above 2 things i listed IN EVERY LESSON maybe you should go FIND SOMETHING ELSE or at the very least learn why you can't do them.
I'm a young man with not a lot of experience behind me but guess what, i can do it in every lesson.
I've learned all that i know of HOW TO TEACH from Brian. My knowledge of the swing has come from him and several others.
I guarrantee 2 things in ALL of my lessons:
1) You wil NEVER EVER leave my lesson hitting it worst, you will ALWAYS leave it hitting it better then whence you came
2) YOU WILL HIT at least once (i usually get more) properly struck ball that flies relatively straight at your target (might fade/draw slightly) with no bastardization in your lesson.
These are my goals that i set in every lesson and i have yet to fail. Better players it's easier of course but even the hackers i get to do it.
For those of you who are lurking on this site and don't post and see other teachers if they can't do the above 2 things GO SEE SOMEONE ELSE WHO CAN.
For those of you who are TEACHERS and are lurking on this site and can't do the above 2 things i listed IN EVERY LESSON maybe you should go FIND SOMETHING ELSE or at the very least learn why you can't do them.
I'm a young man with not a lot of experience behind me but guess what, i can do it in every lesson.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
The Interview Process...
Hi I'm Brian. Hit it.
That's how I start my lessons. The interview process is right up their with sitting in a chair in the AirCondition and drawing lines. To me, I am already half way into my fix.
You can do it anyway you want, but, I'll take my way. Jimmy, you are doing me proud.
WE (Me, Mike Finney, Tom Bartlett, Jim, etc) HAVE A SYSTEM. I called it the "Bowl System" at the last seminar I did. I have come up with a way to fix people that is unique, but, to me, sooooooooooo logical it isn't funny.
Everytime I wacth a "Top" teacher do a live lesson, I feel like they are moving in slow motion. When you spend your money with me or my guys, you get 100% teaching, and 0% preaching.
Hi I'm Brian. Hit it.
That's how I start my lessons. The interview process is right up their with sitting in a chair in the AirCondition and drawing lines. To me, I am already half way into my fix.
You can do it anyway you want, but, I'll take my way. Jimmy, you are doing me proud.
WE (Me, Mike Finney, Tom Bartlett, Jim, etc) HAVE A SYSTEM. I called it the "Bowl System" at the last seminar I did. I have come up with a way to fix people that is unique, but, to me, sooooooooooo logical it isn't funny.
Everytime I wacth a "Top" teacher do a live lesson, I feel like they are moving in slow motion. When you spend your money with me or my guys, you get 100% teaching, and 0% preaching.
For every instructor that has that approach, I would say I have seen a 100 if not more that don't use it. I don't understand how you can effectively teach doing:
Hi I'm Paul Pro.
What is it you are here for?
Can't hit the ball you say?
Hit a few and we see what we have here!
Change this and adjust this, now hit a few more!
Don't worry if you arent hitting them as good as before, you will soon, might take a few to a dozen lessons, but we'll get you there!
Blah Blah....
I observe a lot of instructors on the practice tee over the years and the above is not uncommon to hear and witness.
Argh!!!!!!
Brian Manzella
Administrator
People who can't make golfers better, can't make golfers better for one reason:
THEY CAN'T TEACH!
Period.
What would you rather? 3 hours of lecture and 2 watching you hit balls on the range or 5 hours of 100% teaching from a great teacher?
tourdeep
New
Kelleyville....
http://www.thegolfingmachine.com/amateurGolfers/findInstructor.php
Don Shaw is an AI instructor. Dunno if he is a good instructor since I never had a lesson from him nor any reference background checking. If you buy into TGM concepts, it might be a start.
Nice to see someone else from my neck of the woods! The weather was awesome yesterday, wasn't it?!!!!
http://www.thegolfingmachine.com/amateurGolfers/findInstructor.php
Don Shaw is an AI instructor. Dunno if he is a good instructor since I never had a lesson from him nor any reference background checking. If you buy into TGM concepts, it might be a start.
Nice to see someone else from my neck of the woods! The weather was awesome yesterday, wasn't it?!!!!
I take a few minutes before hitting balls to figure out my students learning style.
I've done some "pre-lesson" discussions to talk about theory, but that's only for some people. It really depends on the learning style. Some people gobble it up, but when I know they don't care, I don't even bother. I just watch them swing, and do whatever it takes to get them hitting better.
I've done some "pre-lesson" discussions to talk about theory, but that's only for some people. It really depends on the learning style. Some people gobble it up, but when I know they don't care, I don't even bother. I just watch them swing, and do whatever it takes to get them hitting better.
Maybe I am not communicating (that would be a first?), Your question would be the latter, the 5 hours, but what I expect is for the golf instructor to explain what he is doing to my stroke, not just tell me to do something and this will make the ball go better. Your interview IMO is a mark of a good golf instructors, not that all who do this are good, but those that don't are probably not very effective. Have some understanding and insight to the student surely allows for the instructor to effectively communicate with the student as well as understand how the student precieves the golf stroke
Not looking for a lecture per-se but some interaction prior to hitting the ball I believe is a trait all good golf instructors have.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
No.
birdie_man
New
You hit the ball with your swing...(regardless of what kind of shot you're playing you end up putting the club on the ball in one way or another)
Good swing = good result.
Bad swing = bad result.
So let's work on the swing....no? (what else are you there for?)
"Make me as good of a golfer as you can with this 1 hour you have."
Makes sense to me.
You diagnose what's wrong from their shots and they'll give you some info too.
And of course there are different aspects to the game (putting, driving, chipping, pitching, working the ball around, etc.) but who says you can't work on all of em.
I don't teach for a living and I'm not sure how Brian goes about this all but why can't you just ask- "Ok how's your putting?"
"Not too good eh....ok how about a putting lesson."
Good swing = good result.
Bad swing = bad result.
So let's work on the swing....no? (what else are you there for?)
"Make me as good of a golfer as you can with this 1 hour you have."
Makes sense to me.
You diagnose what's wrong from their shots and they'll give you some info too.
And of course there are different aspects to the game (putting, driving, chipping, pitching, working the ball around, etc.) but who says you can't work on all of em.
I don't teach for a living and I'm not sure how Brian goes about this all but why can't you just ask- "Ok how's your putting?"
"Not too good eh....ok how about a putting lesson."
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Brian Manzella
Administrator
The Manzella Interview.
I ask more questions than maybe any instructor I know...
...DURING the lesson.
I ask more questions than maybe any instructor I know...
...DURING the lesson.
NO!!!
If the equipment is not the right fit, a good swing produces poor results.. and a bad swing produces good results!!!
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Ringer i know that last statement is one of your whole hearted beliefs and if you want to discuss it please start a new thread.
BUT
As long as you have the CORRECT LIE ANGLE even poorly fit clubheads/shafts won't make that huge a difference. You can still produce great golfshots, they just may not travel as far as you want them too. If you want to debate me on this, let's start a new thread.
BUT
As long as you have the CORRECT LIE ANGLE even poorly fit clubheads/shafts won't make that huge a difference. You can still produce great golfshots, they just may not travel as far as you want them too. If you want to debate me on this, let's start a new thread.
birdie_man
New
OK Ringer that plays a part....but do you really need to conduct a formal interview to find out about someone's clubs?
I don't really get it man....are most people are gonna be able to tell you precisely what degree their 5 iron or w/e is?
I mean.....any slicer or hacker (someone who's swing needs some work before a more precise fitting) just needs something normal or close to normal for them, no?
I don't really get it man....are most people are gonna be able to tell you precisely what degree their 5 iron or w/e is?
I mean.....any slicer or hacker (someone who's swing needs some work before a more precise fitting) just needs something normal or close to normal for them, no?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Interviews are what you do if you want to waste time.
Period.
Fitted clubs?
I see if that is way off on ball 3.
Look folks, this year I am going to have some LIVE LESSON on line, part of a new show I am doing. The lessons will be start to finish. You'll see.
Next.
Period.
Fitted clubs?
I see if that is way off on ball 3.
Look folks, this year I am going to have some LIVE LESSON on line, part of a new show I am doing. The lessons will be start to finish. You'll see.
Next.
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