Found it by accident

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Well, there was help from you guys as well.

For a long time, I have been trying to understand why my pivot was so weak.
If I went hard at it, I was off balance. I usually ended on the ball of my left foot instead of my heel.

Then I started posing impact position with weight on heel and the axis tilt.
That felt good. Powerful.
But I hit everything left when trying to get to that position.

Then I read about 3Jack's flat lie angles and hand path closer to the body.
Yeah, I like the way that feels, easy balance, but everything goes hard left.
For the ball to go straight, I need high hands through impact .... then weight goes to ball of my left foot.

So, on a lark, I go to a clubmaker and have him bend every iron back to original specs.
These are old golfsmith blades, so that means 3-4* flatter than where they are now.
Boom! Everything goes straight now with the tilted-teacup, hands closer to the body swing.

Now, what bugs me about this whole thing .... I had these clubs "professionally fitted."
I remember hitting the lie board and him telling me that he was bending everything upright.
I saw the marks on the tape and I agreed with his assessment.
The problem was that he was fitting my irons to a weak pivot with high hands swing.

Anyway, thanks to all of you. If it weren't for all the little clues I got from reading here
(and one lesson with Brian, pre-trackman) I would still be lost.
It makes me wonder how many are stuck because of this contradiction.
I have been fitted more than once to the upright lie angle, by "good" clubfitters.
I have been stuck for years with clubs that kept me in a bad habit.

How can you break this cycle without the clubfitter and swing coach being the same guy?
 
Also curious to know, what is the best way to check lie angles? I have done the sharpie line on the ball, but it is difficult to tell with any precision by eyeballing it.
 
Hey photonn, I see this every day. I reckon that 90% of my students who have been fitted have clubs that are ABSURDLY upright. Your story tells it all and should be compulsory reading for everyone about to go for a fitting.
 
A common mistake in clubfitting is that the ball is usually sitting above where it would normally sit which changes the descriptive characteristics. Most of us are (for simplicity's sake) centrifugal releasers (high hands), while some of us are centripetal (lower hands, disappearing hands). Then, there's the old BALL FLIGHT. Context is everything.
Try to learn to keep the heel down with flat clubs and be able to hit consistent draws and you'll be in golfing nirvana.
 
...I remember hitting the lie board and him telling me that he was bending everything upright.I saw the marks on the tape and I agreed with his assessment....

Most probably an error by reading the marks. Most fitters are not aware that they MUST take the clubpath into account when reading the marks from a lie board.
 
A common mistake in clubfitting is that the ball is usually sitting above where it would normally sit which changes the descriptive characteristics. Most of us are (for simplicity's sake) centrifugal releasers (high hands), while some of us are centripetal (lower hands, disappearing hands). Then, there's the old BALL FLIGHT. Context is everything.
Try to learn to keep the heel down with flat clubs and be able to hit consistent draws and you'll be in golfing nirvana.

Bill -

Good post. (Although hopefully you don't get killed for using Morad terms). What do you believe is the standard lie angle for a 5 iron and length (with the grip on)? Also, do the lie angles change by 1* for each club?

If 60* is standard for a 5 iron, would 65* be standard for a PW?
 
For most people, what is a normal lie angle, for a 5 iron? Despite differences in height, body type, etc., are most well served with lie angles closer to standard or flat? I guess that's somewhat of a bad question, since there is no "standard" from company to company.
 
"Hopefully you don't get killed for using Morad terms."

Manzella Forum Hit squad or Morad Hit squad?? :);)

Bill is unHittable!

"..keep the heel down with flat clubs and you'll be in golfing nirvana."

Hey Bill: the right heel? Or weight firmly on left heel at impact?
 
"Hopefully you don't get killed for using Morad terms."

Manzella Forum Hit squad or Morad Hit squad?? :);)

Bill is unHittable!

"..keep the heel down with flat clubs and you'll be in golfing nirvana."

Hey Bill: the right heel? Or weight firmly on left heel at impact?

Maybe he means the heel of the club?
 
Btw I had a guy fit me real upright too. 4 degrees. (Yikes)

Totally unusable. And I had to argue and pay full price (again) for him to bend them back.

Wonder if he still fits the same way.
 
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