Fwd Press causing problems?

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Agent99

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I have a habit of overdoing the forward press. Not sure if this is the cause, but as my club goes back, the face stays very closed (square?). I am able to play this way, but most other swings I have looked at have the club face closer to vertical at the 9 o'clock position and toe down at top of swing - I don't get anywhere near there!

I have been working on a right forearm takeaway, to try and avoid the forward press. Seems to be working but I still need to do more work. (No video yet!)

Here are a series of stills taken BEFORE I started the Rt Forearm takeaway - Any suggestions?

5i_sequence.jpg
 
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Agent99

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No Suggestions - Is swing that bad :)

Just received a Swing Glove today. Likely will prevent overdoing left wrist bend as in first picture in above series. Have not tested it out yet.
 
bbftx

bbftx

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I don't think the forward press is a problem.

I think you should focus on the impact frame and trying to improve things happening there.
 
rchang72

rchang72

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Few thoughts. 1) Looks like you reverse pivot at the top, possibly from overswinging. 2) As compensation, looks like your whole upper torso slides on the downswing, instead of the buttocks moving forward independently. You lose your axis tilt instead of increasing it on the downswing. 3) So you have to flip your left wrist not to hit the shot fat. 4)Not hinging correctly at impact, followed by not finish swiveling.

Looks like if you train your pivot to stop then tilt, you could correct most of your problems.
 
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Agent99

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quote:Originally posted by bbftx

I don't think the forward press is a problem.

I think you should focus on the impact frame and trying to improve things happening there.
Click to expand...

Thanks for all the comments!

I did a comparison with Brian's swing - At impact, he has larger cup in right wrist. Is there anything else I should be looking at, at impact?

Regarding the forward press - In frame 3, you can see the clubface - It goes back almost completely square and I get jammed up at the top of the swing. If I avoid pressing, the toe of the club is more vertical (at 9 oclock), so presumably has rotated open a bit. Would eliminating the very square takeaway/backswing help increase the counter rotation after impact?

Erik wrote:

quote:need to get the wedding ring up!
Click to expand...

At what point in the follow through should the wedding ring be up? (PS: I don't wear one :) ) - I have looked at Brians swing and can't see where his wedding ring would be facing up - maybe there is a better illustration somewhere?

Thanks for all the comments - Still trying to digest some points!
 
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JohnThomas1

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Things i notice

Looks like a very strong left hand

I see a slight reverse pivot

I don't see much angle created at any point of the swing, and the little created seems to be lost too soon in the downswing

There seems to be a lack of axis tilt in the downswing and also a flipping left wrist, this is clear in the third last frame, we need some swivel

I wonder if the strong (seemingly) left hand is making you hold off (flip too) thru impact for fear of hooking?

I bet some Brianizing would have you swinging way better very quickly. A better pivot, grip, angle creation and no flip and i bet you'd be dangerous.
 
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hue

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I see what JohnThomas1 sees. I also have a hunch your head is moving forward in the downstroke that will lead to minimal axis tilt.
 
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shootin4par

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quote:Originally posted by hue

I see what JohnThomas1 sees. I also have a hunch your head is moving forward in the downstroke that will lead to minimal axis tilt.
Click to expand...
looking at the tree his head actually stays pretty good. Sometheing about his right hand grip looks off to me but cant see it close enough to see what it is.
 
Erik_K

Erik_K

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quote:Originally posted by Agent99

quote:Originally posted by bbftx

I don't think the forward press is a problem.

I think you should focus on the impact frame and trying to improve things happening there.
Click to expand...

Thanks for all the comments!

I did a comparison with Brian's swing - At impact, he has larger cup in right wrist. Is there anything else I should be looking at, at impact?

Regarding the forward press - In frame 3, you can see the clubface - It goes back almost completely square and I get jammed up at the top of the swing. If I avoid pressing, the toe of the club is more vertical (at 9 oclock), so presumably has rotated open a bit. Would eliminating the very square takeaway/backswing help increase the counter rotation after impact?

Erik wrote:

quote:need to get the wedding ring up!
Click to expand...

At what point in the follow through should the wedding ring be up? (PS: I don't wear one :) ) - I have looked at Brians swing and can't see where his wedding ring would be facing up - maybe there is a better illustration somewhere?

Thanks for all the comments - Still trying to digest some points!
Click to expand...

The finish swivel is hurting you. If you are swinging, you normally employ the sequenced release-the uncocking and ROLLING of the left hand. Post impact, your left hand looks like it is on top of the club. Think of catching rain drops with your left hand.

Also, is it me or is that right hand in a way too strong position?
 
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Agent99

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quote:Originally posted by shootin4par

quote:Originally posted by hue

I see what JohnThomas1 sees. I also have a hunch your head is moving forward in the downstroke that will lead to minimal axis tilt.
Click to expand...
looking at the tree his head actually stays pretty good. Sometheing about his right hand grip looks off to me but cant see it close enough to see what it is.
Click to expand...

Shooting par is correct - Using V1, I can circle the head and it does not move much.

quote:
Looks like a very strong left hand
Click to expand...

I think I have tended to be on strong side, but not overly so, using one of those formed grips as a guide.

quote:I see a slight reverse pivot
Click to expand...

Yes, this is more obvious in video - It causes me to cast club from top a bit and I am sure I lose some power there.

quote:I don't see much angle created at any point of the swing, and the little created seems to be lost too soon in the downswing
Click to expand...

In frame 7, there is some, but at impact it has been released. Not enough lag?

quote:There seems to be a lack of axis tilt in the downswing and also a flipping left wrist, this is clear in the third last frame, we need some swivel
Click to expand...

Not sure If I really understand axis tilt - I did side by side comparison of video with Brian, and if axis tilt means spine tilt, I cannot see much difefrence - maybe I am missing something?

quote:I wonder if the strong (seemingly) left hand is making you hold off (flip too) thru impact for fear of hooking?
Click to expand...

I usually draw the ball, but seldom hook badly - fault is usually opening up and blocking shots to right. I see a small flip, but strong grip seems to restrict this somewhat - Just tried it with club and it seem to be true.

quote:I bet some Brianizing would have you swinging way better very quickly. A better pivot, grip, angle creation and no flip and i bet you'd be dangerous.
Click to expand...

I'm working on it! Don't think I will ever be dangerous at my age, but thanks for suggesting it!

quote:he finish swivel is hurting you. If you are swinging, you normally employ the sequenced release-the uncocking and ROLLING of the left hand. Post impact, your left hand looks like it is on top of the club. Think of catching rain drops with your left hand.
Click to expand...

I now see that I don't roll my hands that much until perhaps later in the follow through - I wonder if this is because my club goes back way too square (no rotation to speak of) - it comes back same way and I need to hold this until I have struck ball - only then do my hands release and turn over. So perhaps more rotation on backswing? More open clubface? But if I open and close the face doensn't accuracy suffer?

OK - Off to watch a few more videos!

Thanks for the help!

PS: By trying to eliminate excessive fwd press, I am trying Right arm take away and it seems to be helping - hit almost all fairways with driver in last two games.
 
Burner

Burner

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Damned if I see any reverse pivot, on comparison with head position and ball, nor do I see any real head movement throughout the swing in relation to the background. There is also no evidence of any lack of axis tilt, or forward movement of the whole upper torso, when you compare the left hip position to the pathway along side it and the right shoulder position to the background.

However, in frame 10, I do see what, to me, seems to be a classical vertical hinging position. The right elbow and back of the right hand are facing directly at the ground. There is a chicken winging of the left elbow, and the back of left hand directly faces the sky; and that is a major power loss. By frame 10 the right forearm should have rolled over the left.
 
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Agent99

New
quote:Originally posted by Burner

Damned if I see any reverse pivot, on comparison with head position and ball, nor do I see any real head movement throughout the swing in relation to the background. There is also no evidence of any lack of axis tilt, or forward movement of the whole upper torso, when you compare the left hip position to the pathway along side it and the right shoulder position to the background.

However, in frame 10, I do see what, to me, seems to be a classical vertical hinging position. The right elbow and back of the right hand are facing directly at the ground. There is a chicken winging of the left elbow, and the back of left hand directly faces the sky; and that is a major power loss. By frame 10 the right forearm should have rolled over the left.
Click to expand...

Burner - Thanks for the comments.

I too don't see much head movement and seem to have axis tilt in frames 8,9 & 10. I only see a small amount of flipping (between frames 8 & 9). In the video, I do see a small reverse pivot bewteen frames 5 & 6 , but not much. But the club does go back inside and then come over the top a bit. I also get jammed up and cannot make a full backswing ( Age may have something to do with this :) )

I am working at improving this by using a Right Wrist takeaway and hopefully reducing the forward press. I feel the press causes my club to go back inside instead of straight back. This is a problem I have had for a while that our pro has tried to get me to eliminate. He wants me to feel like I am taking the club back outside and to have it almost vertical when arms are at 9 oclock.

But, as mentioned above, I think problem may be taking club back too closed - look at club face in frames 3 & 4. In 3, toe of bottom of face is at about 45 deg to vertical. Because I don't roll wrists on back swing, it is hard to roll them over on follow through and that may be part of the cause of the hand positions in frame 10? I do usually hit the ball quite straight - perhaps keeping the face square all the way helps accuracy, but loses power?

I can practice take aways and toe of club points almost vertical, but when I actually hit ball, it seems I don't rotate the hands. Not sure what this is called in Manzellaspeak? :)

I may have a power loss, but it is not apparent in comparison with guys that I play with - we are all in mid to high single digit index range. Our good drives are usually 240-260yds and we use a 7 or 8 from 150yds.
 
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01ragtop

New
I agree with Burner on the vertical hinging part. #10 Someone else mentioned getting the wedding ring up, which will help change that to horizontal hinging. Your right wrist goes straight early, but I think that might have more to do with the vertical hinging than actual throwaway. It is hard to tell though because of the vertical hinge action. I suspect this ball went High, and a little to the right.
Just a guess.:)
 
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JohnThomas1

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quote:Originally posted by golfie

Doesn't anyone esle think this guy is a hitter who doesn't have a finish swivel?

Golfie
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I think hitting would serve him well, he is strong and has the right length backswing already for hitting. As you hint, he already has plenty of hitting in his swing. Getting the hinge action right and sustaining the lag would make him a rather good hitter i think, especially considering his start from impact fix.
 
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