Gary Player on Golf Channel

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Lifter

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I just watched a bit of Gary Player explaining his swing philosophy on Golf Channel.

Some of the stuff he's advocating is really not helpful. For example, he said that Hogan "kept the clubhead going straight down the line after impact longer than anyone who ever lived!"

Whaaaaaaaatttt????
 
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mgreer

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Plenty of other things to be learned from Gary Player,saw him at the Woodlands tpc last year walked all 18 and it was hot! Amazing 76 year old
 
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Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Lifter said:
I just watched a bit of Gary Player explaining his swing philosophy on Golf Channel.

Some of the stuff he's advocating is really not helpful. For example, he said that Hogan "kept the clubhead going straight down the line after impact longer than anyone who ever lived!"

Whaaaaaaaatttt????
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Just so you know, there is a flat spot in the arc. Whether or not his was any longer, who knows?
 
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rogerdodger

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Player watched Hogan in person and played tournaments with him, and won more majors than anyone on this or any other website. I think he has a right to give his opinion on what he thought Hogan did or did not do in the swing. Apparently everyone with access to you tube is a Hogan expert.
 
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mgreer

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As I get closer and closer to 50 the more I enjoy the old guys,nonsense or not most everyone here knows whats going on.
 
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Lifter

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rogerdodger said:
Player watched Hogan in person and played tournaments with him, and won more majors than anyone on this or any other website. I think he has a right to give his opinion on what he thought Hogan did or did not do in the swing. Apparently everyone with access to you tube is a Hogan expert.
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You have got to be kidding me.
 
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Lifter

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I mean, Brian has been using a TrackMan for years now, saying that in order to hit consistently straight irons, the path must go substantially to the left.

What, we're supposed to throw all that out the window because one old man feels like he did something that he didn't actually do (swing down-the-line)?

You have got to be kidding me.
 
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Lifter

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What "Swinging Left" Looks Like

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vguBmSttDXw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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Lifter

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One year ago.......

Brian Manzella said:
HOW DO YOU HIT A STRAIGHT SHOT?

Well.... you have to swing left.

You do not have to aim left.

Most folks aim in a different place than they swing, some did it famously. Sam Snead swung left of his aim, and Lee Trevino swung right of his aim.

So..... how far left?

Well, if you control your downward angle of attack to PGA Tour levels, it turns out you need to SWING LEFT (not aim left) 2.4°.

How far left is that?

About 4.5 yards per 100 yards.

If you hit down on the ball even more than that, you need to swing (not necessarily aim) further left.

Here is a visualization of aligning your plane to the left and ZEROing out your path:

swingleftbra.jpg



And a video of a really good player doing it:

<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/34609086?title=0&byline=0&portrait=0" width="700" height="560" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe>

That's what swinging left is.
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BrendanC

BrendanC

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Hogan's swing is flat, with the right elbow low in the backswing.

Therefore the swing is 'wider'.

Therefore the swing is more circular than 'ferris wheel' in orientation.

This is what Gary Player is talking about.

Now...why didn't he hook the s**t out of it? Well, he actually wrote a whole book on the subject.

Judge what Player said on its own terms - think about it, maybe there's something there?

Blasting off about TV analysis that doesn't use the terminology or whatever you prefer has gotten really old.
 
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siksta

New
Lifter


You forgot to mention how Nicklaus told Hall how not to hook- he felt a underhanded motion with the right palm post impact isnt that close to what Player felt or thought Hogan did ? Did he feel like the clubhead not the HANDS go up the line longer on the arc post impact. The vid you posted shows shows the club going left with a massive release motion post impact where Hogans club goes left with a different release? Trevino and Hogan both felt this and Player observed this while there intentions whereto go up the line but as we know it goes left? The more they felt it the less left the ball went.


Hogan no trackman no camera alot of victories he figured out something.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
Lifter,

Obviously you HAVE TO swing left—as per all of my posts you copied above—to hit the ball straight and on the "sweetspot."

Player thinks he saw something that doesn't exist.


Try to understand that if a guy wearing a Ray Lewis jersey, walked into a bar in Pittsburgh and told everyone how great Big Ben was, they might not get the reception they thought they would.
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Lifter said:
I mean, Brian has been using a TrackMan for years now, saying that in order to hit consistently straight irons, the path must go substantially to the left.

What, we're supposed to throw all that out the window because one old man feels like he did something that he didn't actually do (swing down-the-line)?

You have got to be kidding me.
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You're starting to sound more and more like a certain asshole you hang with. It's not too late to turn that around.

One old man????
 
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Lifter

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Kevin Shields said:
You're starting to sound more and more like a certain asshole you hang with. It's not too late to turn that around.

One old man????
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I'm making an excuse for Gary Player's comment. It's not that he's stupid. It's that he's unaware (TrackMan, etc). Why? Because he's an old man.
 
mgranato

mgranato

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Lifter said:
I'm making an excuse for Gary Player's comment. It's not that he's stupid. It's that he's unaware (TrackMan, etc). Why? Because he's an old man.
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Be careful about throwing stones with regards to understanding Trackman... in the last video you posted trying to prove your point, what was Sheild's club path?

Hint: it wasn't left

You cannot see club path from a down the line video angle, doesn't matter if it's an iPhone or Phantom camera. Put the camera above the ball, perfectly on the target line, then you got a better indication of path (still distorted, but better). Now, how many Hogan shots have you seen like that? Unless someone one has that footage, or better yet, his LM numbers... everyone is just guessing what Hogan did with his path. Then the question becomes who's guess to you want to believe?
 
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Lifter

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Brian Manzella said:
Lifter,

Obviously you HAVE TO swing left—as per all of my posts you copied above—to hit the ball straight and on the "sweetspot."

Player thinks he saw something that doesn't exist.


Try to understand that if a guy wearing a Ray Lewis jersey, walked into a bar in Pittsburgh and told everyone how great Big Ben was, they might not get the reception they thought they would.
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Thank you very much, Brian, I appreciate it. Out of every comment on this thread, only one has said "You make a valid point, Lifter" and "Facts matter. Reality matters." But at least that one comment is coming from the owner of this darn website. :)

Every other comment? "How can you say Player is wrong? You can't say that about him. Look how many majors he's won! How many majors have you won?"
 
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rogerdodger

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Lifter said:
You have got to be kidding me.
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Nope, not kidding. Read my statement again. I am not saying Player is right. I am saying he has earned his opinion based on his experience and the fact that he is saying what he observed. Observation differs from person to person. It typically is based upon preconception. ie, I need to feel like I swing more down the line and by the way I saw Ben Hogan doing that. I do not know how Hogan hit the ball because I have never seen him do it. Player did many times and I am not going to say he is wrong because I see something else on video. Brian has pointed out that the film we rely on for evaluating these players does not exactly show what we think we see. Golf instruction has traditionally relied upon three basic models as far as I can see. 1. Pros like Player give instruction. He studied the swing for many years with one goal in mind, making his game better. His history is as a problem hooker of the ball. All of his swing work was done in order to cure that. He did not have trackman in 1960, so if he did he may have used that rather than hitting more balls than anyone since Hogan and watching Hogan swing. Nonetheless, in listening to his swing stuff, Player has some decent thoughts to use if you hook the ball. I do, so I find some of the ideas worth trying if they factor into curing the hook. 2. Instructors like Haney, Leadbetter and Harmon who market a mass type of instruction where most of the stuff is related to curing a slice or is as basic as it comes, or worse is a method like the stuff Haney talks about. I am so sick of watching rich people hit pre teed up balls that I am ready to cancel cable. We all used to be the kid that had to go out and tee up 100 balls because our boss told us too. I cannot stand Haney and cannot figure out how this pompous blowhard got on tv. 3. An instructor like Brian for example sees you hit balls. He likely knows what is going on. He confirms it or finds out something else he did not see with trackman. This is what he did for me. As a result, I pay no attention to any instruction that will not help the issues he has identified for me. Flattening the shaft or laying it off at the top is death for me. I know that when I hear it, run like hell. I tend to over-rotate the lfw on the backswing, hence the Kuchar tip is a good one for me. Point is I know what I need because Brian showed me. If I decide to change my swing or adopt a tip because Jack Nicklaus, Gary Player or Ben Hogan told me too, I get what I deserve. The only way to improvement, as far as I am concerned is #3. My point again is not saying Player is right, if you see Brian's Hogan tip from last May you will see what I think is one of the best analysis of his swing that I have seen, I am saying he is simply stating what he thinks he saw when he watched Hogan. I find what the touring pros work on or believe as far as the swing interesting, however they are only looking to their swing, not whether it helps anyone else. When golf learning focuses on point #3 and instructors like the one's on this site, handicaps will lower. If instead you try to duplicate Ben Hogan's swing you can spin in circles forever.
 
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