Geoff Ogilvy: Golf's best interview

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Tom Bartlett

Administrator
Mr Inconsistent said:
Path at the green L or a little left of it, and the face at the green T. On Ogilvy's misses his path and clubface are both at the green R, his path is not at the T with a clubface at the R.
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No, on the first sentence. Yes on the second.

And, your second sentence you innuendo that someone said this (path at the T with clubface at the R). And, I think you probably thought that that is what Mike was saying. But if you read his post again you will see that is not the case.
 
Mr Inconsistent

Mr Inconsistent

Banned
You say no to the first sentence but provided no reason why. On the second sentence, first of all Mike didn't say much and certainly not in depth, secondly if you will read the thread Jim said that it was not a getting stuck problem but an open clubface problem. Getting stuck involves an inside out path. So if he doesn't get stuck and swings on a square path then since his clubface is square to his path the ball will go straight. A path problem.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
(and the buzzer sounded) ernnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnp!

Mr Inconsistent said:
You say no to the first sentence but provided no reason why.
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Your answer was incorrect. We didn't think giving the answer without letting a smart person like Bruce answer was the best idea.

On the second sentence, first of all Mike didn't say much and certainly not in depth, secondly if you will read the thread Jim said that it was not a getting stuck problem but an open clubface problem. Getting stuck involves an inside out path. So if he doesn't get stuck and swings on a square path then since his clubface is square to his path the ball will go straight. A path problem.
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Great, you know how to hit a stright push, but you wern't very clear about it. Trust me pal, Jim and Mike know the correct answer.

As far as getting stuck....does Jim Furyk get "stuck"???

(PS Who are you?)
 
Mr Inconsistent

Mr Inconsistent

Banned
I was actually pretty clear about. Jim was acting like his path was fine and it was a clubface problem, if anyone wasn't clear it was him.

Furyk apparently doesn't get stuck since he still is able to go from inside back to inside through and without an awkward release.
 
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mpro

New
Might I add that the ball takes off perpendicular to the club face angle when the ball leaves it. The club path imparts spin to the ball as it "rubs" for lack of a better word the back of the ball. If the club head moves straight through the center line of the ball, only straight backspin will be produced (unless the club head is moving upward through impact). But when the club head comes into impact to either side of the ball's center, sidespin is produced. So to hit a straight shot at the target, the club face has to be aiming at the target and the path has to move straight through the center of the ball toward the target. But you can hit a straight push if the club face is aimed to the right of the target and the path is moving equally to the right. So straight shots = club face square to path. Curved shots = club face not square to path. For example, if the club face is 2 degrees open, but the path is 4 degrees inside out, the ball will start 2 degrees right of center and curve back to the left of center.

I've always believed that due to compression, the ball would have to take off in the direction in which it was compressed and that the club face angle relative to the path caused the curve. I had it half right. Live and learn.

This seemingly contradictory info is important to understand because better golfers often waste time fixing the wrong aspect and can actually worsen the problem.

Does anybody have hard numbers on the path to face interaction?

JD
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
At impact you need the face roughly 1-2* open (depending on club) with an angle of attack going 1-2* inside/out (depending on club) to hit a straight shot. You have to allow for the rotation of the clubface during the impact interval no matter how small the amount of time the ball stays on the face.

Ask any OEM manufacturer or your local Golftec
 
golfbulldog

golfbulldog

New
i posted a question inviting comments along a similar line on another website ( equipment oriented where TGM is discussed occasionally but rarely with much insight)

It will be interesting to see what Joe Public thinks about movement of clubhead/face through impact interval...
 
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mpro

New
So are you saying at impact 1-2 open and square at separation? Is that due to club head design? Same with the path? that makes sense if divots are taken down and out. I have to say, my best golf has been played with a slight draw flight to almost dead straight with divots that curve left at the end.

Sounds like you've been through this before so I'd like to ask another question. Do you have any data on lie angle and it's result on ball flight as in if the club is buiilt with 62* and the hands are above plane at impact with a 67* angle, how far does the ball go right given other wise square impact?
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
I do not have data in regards to lie angle i'm sorry. What i can "infer" is that the lie angle is there to help offset the amount of "toe droop" you create from the shaft bending.

If the lie angle isn't correct for the amount of droop you create the face will be a little too open or a little too shut than it needs to be and it will go left/right
 
shortgamer

shortgamer

New
golfbulldog said:
i posted a question inviting comments along a similar line on another website ( equipment oriented where TGM is discussed occasionally but rarely with much insight)

It will be interesting to see what Joe Public thinks about movement of clubhead/face through impact interval...
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Google ball flight laws and the top 15 sights have the wrong laws and nobody on other forums will believe you. I've fought all the guys on fgi for over a year about it. One quick way to shut them up is ask them if path controls initial direction then why does a 6 iron not skim the ground for a hundred yards and then rise a hundred yards up in the air.
 
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Chris Sturgess

New member
So let's say you want to fade a 5 iron 15 yards from 180 yards away. How far left should you aim to start it 15 yards left and how open should the face be to get it back to the target?
 
mjstrong

mjstrong

New
Chris Sturgess said:
So let's say you want to fade a 5 iron 15 yards from 180 yards away. How far left should you aim to start it 15 yards left and how open should the face be to get it back to the target?
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The face should actually be slightly CLOSED to the target, but open to the swing path, which would be open again to the target line. Brian's example above with the letters is pretty good for explaining how it'd work.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

New
Swing real far to the right of the green with a clubface that points left of the green.

Path = right of green

Face = left of green

Where did the ball go?
 
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Chris Sturgess

New member
Chris Sturgess said:
So let's say you want to fade a 5 iron 15 yards from 180 yards away. How far left should you aim to start it 15 yards left and how open should the face be to get it back to the target?
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But by how much? Like in this example, should I swing 20 yards left, 30 yards left, or how much? And should the clubface be 5 yards left, 10 yards left?
 
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cayrbee

New
Michael Finney said:
you've got it exactly backwards.....the face tells the ball where to start and it curves away from the path....(there's a little more to that last part, but that is the basic deal)

every scratch player and most club pros make the same mistake you do....that's why golf instruction - in general - sucks
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If you are standing in the road and a truck is coming at 70 mph and strikes you in the center of the grill, which direction is your body traveling in at impact ? The direction of truck travel. Right?
 
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