mondeoclub
New
Ah yes good question mon(deoclub).
(can I just call u 'mon' now tho?...it's funnier...)
No problem. I am new here. You can do what ever you want to me
Golf Impact Physics
- Thread starter mandrin
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No problem. I am new here. You can do what ever you want to me
Sonic_Doom
New
Thanks, my idea of open is a bit clearer now. 1.7 deg is barely discernable (for me) from say 5-6 feet, though easier with a large face driver than with the 3-iron.
birdie_man
New
Ah yes good question mon(deoclub).
(can I just call u 'mon' now tho?...it's funnier...
No problem. I am new here. You can do what ever you want to me
Hehe.
Now go eat your own doo-doo....
...
lol jk......no strange initiation rituals and such around here...
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The Zelocity PureLaunch directly measures Clubhead Speed at Impact, Ball Speed and Launch Angle. I understand that they are coming out soon with new software that will also measure Angle of Attack, Deviation From Center, Clubface Angle and Side Spin.
My point was more about what is directly Measured by the launch montior versus the info provided. Calculations are performed by some launch monitors. This brings into question then how those calculations are "calibrated"
mondeoclub
New
The launch monitor that my coach used is Dead Solid Golf. Does it measures or calculates ball speed?
Hi Mandrin, was introduced to this thread by Birdie_man. Can you review my observations below agree/disprove as you see fit? Would love to know your thoughts
1. Clubhead is rigidly connected to shaft
2. There is clubhead lead at impact
3. If the hands contributed to the clubhead momentum at impact, the shaft would have be bending away from the ball, in the same way it was bent during the downswing, so therefore the hands and the rest of the body do not make any further contribution to clubhead momentum at the point of impact
4. Therefore the clubhead head as well as a portion of the shaft must have transferred their momentum to the ball at impact, if points 1 & 2 are true.
5. Hypothesis: Therefore, if the clubhead mass, clubhead speed, shaft flex and shaft weight are the same for two different swings by the same person, the shaft that is bent more at impact will transfer more momentum.
Point 5 is what I have come up with but cannot say for certain is happening. But what i do know it is just illogical to not factor in at least part of the momentum of the shaft during impact.
1. Clubhead is rigidly connected to shaft
2. There is clubhead lead at impact
3. If the hands contributed to the clubhead momentum at impact, the shaft would have be bending away from the ball, in the same way it was bent during the downswing, so therefore the hands and the rest of the body do not make any further contribution to clubhead momentum at the point of impact
4. Therefore the clubhead head as well as a portion of the shaft must have transferred their momentum to the ball at impact, if points 1 & 2 are true.
5. Hypothesis: Therefore, if the clubhead mass, clubhead speed, shaft flex and shaft weight are the same for two different swings by the same person, the shaft that is bent more at impact will transfer more momentum.
Point 5 is what I have come up with but cannot say for certain is happening. But what i do know it is just illogical to not factor in at least part of the momentum of the shaft during impact.
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mandrin
New
jza80,
The forward bending of the shaft prior to and leading into impact is due to the centrifugal torque operating through the offset center of mass of the clubhead. What your hands are doing at impact is immaterial, only any hand action before is important. During impact, I repeat, only during impact, the hands, for all practical purpose, are completely disconnected from the clubhead.
Point 3 is not valid. The wrist torque and the large centrifugal torque add - so even if the clubhead is leading the latter still is affected somewhat by the wrist torque, but only before and after impact, not during impact. Impact is completely ruled by physics and as such not really part of a golfer’s swing.
Foremost to consider is the time scale of the impact event. For impulse forces lasting only about 0.0004 sec the shaft does not constitute a rigid body. Before the impulsive force can travel up and down the shaft the ball is already gone. Only a small portion of the shaft, in and above the hosel, can be taken to contribute to the striking mass of the clubhead. However its small contribution to the clubhead mass is even further reduced being positioned off to the side.
Mandrin,
do a graph on what would happen if you leaned this shaft over too much;
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/e/e0/Shaft_Movie.jpg
do a graph on what would happen if you leaned this shaft over too much;
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/e/e0/Shaft_Movie.jpg
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Funny.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
MIT and This Kind of Information.
I am sure hoping to learn more REAL SCIENCE at the MIT Summit next month.
I have been THRILLED with Joe Daniels and Doug DuChateau's willingness to accept new scientific DATA to add to The Golfing Machine.
Unfortunately, not all followers of Homer's work want ANYTHING changed in their minds.
The day will come, where a comptuter program will be able to create a virtual golfer making DIFFERENT SWINGS for the Aaron Zick's and Mandrin's and ALL to see the results based on physics, geometry, and biomechanics, etc.
I'll bet high that the two patterns in the 6th edition of The Golfing Machine are NOWHERE NEAR OPTIMUM. Nowhere near.
It's coming folks......science will BLOW up anyone who is standing pat.
I am sure hoping to learn more REAL SCIENCE at the MIT Summit next month.
I have been THRILLED with Joe Daniels and Doug DuChateau's willingness to accept new scientific DATA to add to The Golfing Machine.
Unfortunately, not all followers of Homer's work want ANYTHING changed in their minds.
The day will come, where a comptuter program will be able to create a virtual golfer making DIFFERENT SWINGS for the Aaron Zick's and Mandrin's and ALL to see the results based on physics, geometry, and biomechanics, etc.
I'll bet high that the two patterns in the 6th edition of The Golfing Machine are NOWHERE NEAR OPTIMUM. Nowhere near.
It's coming folks......science will BLOW up anyone who is standing pat.
bts
New
Does it matter?
It sounds pretty promising.
I'm not sure, however, no matter how much and accurate the information you can get, as long as the trick (or cause) to execute a corrospoding golf swing (the effect) remains to be confused.
There is only the trick, either you do it or not.
It's still gonna be fun, though.
It sounds pretty promising.
I'm not sure, however, no matter how much and accurate the information you can get, as long as the trick (or cause) to execute a corrospoding golf swing (the effect) remains to be confused.
There is only the trick, either you do it or not.
It's still gonna be fun, though.
mandrin
New
Brian, I really admire your openness to science and your willingness to consider anything that seems to works as being worthwhile to look at, but I wonder sometimes if golfers rather much prefer snake oil vendors.
If I judge for instance by the absence of any reaction to my post on weight shift in a forum with over 5000 members I wonder if Harvey Penick nailed it right on when considering golfers to be a rather gullible lot.
....
Mandarin
Ever considered that most people who read your research don't really understand half (or even most) of it.....
The last post you did, where you stated "..it gets a bit complex here" or something to that effect, that's where I went back to reading, "The Easiest Golf Swing in The World," by Hose Shanker......
BTW Mandarin, we have been having a discussion regarding the "spiral" downswing circle on another forum, have you coovered this before and what are your thoughts. I am finding the concept hard to relate to how you can accentuate the motion to make the swing more efficient.
take a quick look here: http://www.mikeaustingolf.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=207&start=0
Brian, I really admire your openness to science and your willingness to consider anything that seems to works as being worthwhile to look at, but I wonder sometimes if golfers rather much prefer snake oil vendors.
If I judge for instance by the absence of any reaction to my post on weight shift in a forum with over 5000 members I wonder if Harvey Penick nailed it right on when considering golfers to be a rather gullible lot.
Mandarin
Ever considered that most people who read your research don't really understand half (or even most) of it.....
The last post you did, where you stated "..it gets a bit complex here" or something to that effect, that's where I went back to reading, "The Easiest Golf Swing in The World," by Hose Shanker......
BTW Mandarin, we have been having a discussion regarding the "spiral" downswing circle on another forum, have you coovered this before and what are your thoughts. I am finding the concept hard to relate to how you can accentuate the motion to make the swing more efficient.
take a quick look here: http://www.mikeaustingolf.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=207&start=0
mandrin
New
Mandarin
Ever considered that most people who read your research don't really understand half (or even most) of it.....
The last post you did, where you stated "..it gets a bit complex here" or something to that effect, that's where I went back to reading, "The Easiest Golf Swing in The World," by Hose Shanker......
BTW Mandarin, we have been having a discussion regarding the "spiral" downswing circle on another forum, have you coovered this before and what are your thoughts. I am finding the concept hard to relate to how you can accentuate the motion to make the swing more efficient.
take a quick look here: http://www.mikeaustingolf.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=207&start=0
As by your own admission loosing interest by anything scientific golf I will just show you the figure I have made up, generated mathematically with two golden spirals, spiraling in opposite directions and designed such as to keep constant length for the segment (lead arm).
I will forego any further explanation why I did this or what it can possibly do for your swing since I just would not like to disturb your piece of mind. I am sure you will find an easy explanation for it in your favorite Hose Shanker manuscript.
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birdie_man
New
mandrin I'm sorry buddy....
I appreciate your input FOR SURE....let's blow up all this BS instruction.
But I gotta step out and say I'm with puttmad on this one.
And It has nothing to do with your work because you obviously do very good work....and it's very NEEDED. (obviously)
But after I got home from work I started to read your weight shift "thesis" (I think that's the fitting word) and once I got past the first few paragraphs to those graphs and such I had a little explosion in my cranium.
In all honesty I looked it over a few times and decided I'd rather wait for someone to summarize. (flame RETARDANT suit on...water hose and fan READY.....jacque strappE tightly secured to THE BOYS.......................knuckles all cracked and lined up baby.....hehe)
Anyway that's prolly why there's no responses to your post mandrin.
-Paul
I appreciate your input FOR SURE....let's blow up all this BS instruction.
But I gotta step out and say I'm with puttmad on this one.
And It has nothing to do with your work because you obviously do very good work....and it's very NEEDED. (obviously)
But after I got home from work I started to read your weight shift "thesis" (I think that's the fitting word) and once I got past the first few paragraphs to those graphs and such I had a little explosion in my cranium.
In all honesty I looked it over a few times and decided I'd rather wait for someone to summarize. (flame RETARDANT suit on...water hose and fan READY.....jacque strappE tightly secured to THE BOYS.......................knuckles all cracked and lined up baby.....hehe
)Anyway that's prolly why there's no responses to your post mandrin.
-Paul
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golfbulldog
New
Calm down guys...
Mandrin loves to get us to use parts of our brains long forgotten, so far he has never forced anyone to read his posts and will always explain if you ask him.
I have looked at the spiral too... not sure which bit of the diagram shows "designed such as to keep constant length for the segment (lead arm)" ? It is not the disatnce between the dots and is not the distance between centre ( 0,0) and outer dots ( clearly it would not be a spiral if it were).
I get the feel that it is about the movement of hands and/or shoulder... but please Mandrin...can you provide what Jose Shanker failed to do ... a few more words re. your spirals... just clues to help if that is all it takes....
Mandrin loves to get us to use parts of our brains long forgotten, so far he has never forced anyone to read his posts and will always explain if you ask him.
I have looked at the spiral too... not sure which bit of the diagram shows "designed such as to keep constant length for the segment (lead arm)"
? It is not the disatnce between the dots and is not the distance between centre ( 0,0) and outer dots ( clearly it would not be a spiral if it were).I get the feel that it is about the movement of hands and/or shoulder... but please Mandrin...can you provide what Jose Shanker failed to do ... a few more words re. your spirals... just clues to help if that is all it takes....
birdie_man
New
I know I know.....but no ones' riled up....just puttin it out there ya'know.
He called me a lazybrain.
He called me a lazybrain.
mandrin
New
Mandrin loves to get us to use parts of our brains long forgotten, so far he has never forced anyone to read his posts and will always explain if you ask him.
I have looked at the spiral too... not sure which bit of the diagram shows "designed such as to keep constant length for the segment (lead arm)"
I get the feel that it is about the movement of hands and/or shoulder... but please Mandrin...can you provide what Jose Shanker failed to do ... a few more words re. your spirals... just clues to help if that is all it takes....
Someone on the MikeAustinGolf website amuses himself considering he hands to follow a golden spiral. This however also imposes a restraint on the lead shoulder since the left arm usually seems to remain constant in length.
It intrigued me to find out what this constraint might be and it looks that another golden spiral would do quite well for the lead shoulder trajectory. It can be viewed as a shortening of swing ratio but will come back on this subject eventually.
For those who are enticed by the subject of the golden ratio and its role in golf should have a look at Taylor Spalding’s Golden Barefoot Golf who however links the golden ratio to gravity.
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