Golf Pros in the USA
- Thread starter wulsy
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Richie3Jack
New
Assistant pros usually don't make jack. They tend to make about $20-$25K a year and work 60 hour work weeks. A lot of times they tend to migrate up north because they can make $20-$25K in 8 months of work vs. making $20-$25K in 12 months of work. I've got friends who do that...work up north for about 8 months, then collect unemployment and move to Florida or Arizona during the winter months and make some money under the table usually working the bag drop or caddying. In the end, they can make a decent living, but a lot of hours and lot of moving back and forth.
Typically the top golf pro position at a club is still pretty good. They are usually either the Head Professional or the Director of Golf. Whichever position is the highest golf pro position at the course, they usually make a very solid living. I knew a bunch of these guys in Myrtle Beach, which is a year round golf climate, and they typically made between $70-$120K a year, got a 'company car', company cell phone and some got a small percentage of retail sales. They also were required to work 40 hours a week, but they got to set their own schedule, so many of them would work the easier shifts and if they worked early in the morning, it's because they wanted to.
Golf instruction has made a lot of twists and turns. As early as the 80's, the instructors who made good money from instruction typically were assistant golf pros or head golf pros at a club and they had to still run the club while they had a lesson schedule. To Leadbetter's credit, I think he changed the profession into more of a person's sole career. And in the 90's it really started to boom from my perspective. I knew an instructor who had his own privately owned golf school that the golf course not only let him establish right on the course, but they paid him $100K a year as a salary. And then on top of the lessons he made, he was pulling about $200K+ a year.
But it appears that has greatly changed in the past 5+ years or so. More courses are conscious about those deals and now charge the instructors money 'rent space' on their course and I've talked to a few instructors about their negotiations with courses and sometimes the courses are charge ludicrous fees.
A lot of my thoughts and info are a bit outdated since I'm not involved with the actual business nearly as much as I was 10 years ago. Golf courses are kinda thought of as a money pit these days, more corporations with bean counters are owning and managing them and that means the employees will likely make less.
3JACK
billmckinneygolf
New
Wulsy, give the German-speaking world a go..they are a culture of lesson takers and are very diligent. I taught in Austria 3 years and Switzerland for 4 and was booked out for 2 months ahead...California is quite a bit different, to say the least.
drewyallop
New
Played a course in the south of England, semi private, in the early oo's. Head pro was on 100k pounds per year.
Richie3Jack
New
I graduated college in '98 and had quite a few friends that were in the Pro Golf Management program because my college had that program and knew of others at different PGM programs at other schools.
By this time I decided not to go pro. But, if I was going to do that I was going to be a teaching professional. I actually had a job at a golf school that was going to integrate me into the teaching business, but the day before I started it fell thru.
I remember talking to friends that were going to be working at clubs that they should really get into teaching because they could make a lot more money and set better hours for themselves. They were on the path of working 60 hours a week for crap pay and watching every morning episode of Sportscenter while being a glorified credit card taker.
To me, it was a no brainer at the time. But none of them wanted to do it.
I still look at it as a no brainer *back then*, but then I took 8 years away from the game and the teaching profession really has changed and for the most part, for the lesser benefit of the instructor. Places like GolfTec churn out lessons like you're at a fast food joint and it helps drive the price of lessons down for the other instructors.
It's still to me a better alternative than trying to go the club pro route because there's so few good paying, reasonable workload jobs out there and you almost have to wait for somebody to die to get that job (then you probably have to know somebody to replace that person who just died).
Brian has it right about the internet as well. IMO, if you are really good at teaching and you are willing to put the time and effort to your Web site, they can't deny you forever. And golfers will find you.
3JACK
IMO, most of the really good jobs are got by word of mouth. The good old boy network is kinda important in this business. if you don't know someone, its hard to get into the door. I guess you can say that in any business, but golf is at the top of my list.
Two jobs openned up in the Philadelphia area and each job recieved over 200 resumes. Many of the assistants I know applied where all well qualied and put in more than there time. Trying to raise a family, working crazy hours while competing against a ton of others assistants and head pros to get that high paying job makes one think about getting in the business.
Like everyone said, assistants make nothing and put in a great deal of hours. The problem is there is no guartnee your going to get a head pro job. It is really hard to stand out among many others well qualifed assistants or teaching professionals.
I felt being a teaching professional is a great way to go. You don't have to worry about 15 different commitees, slow play issues, caddies screaming at you, dirty clubs and carts. At least when you teach you can specialize in one thing. Yes most clubs make you pay for rent of facilites or golf balls, but usually its a small amount.
Two jobs openned up in the Philadelphia area and each job recieved over 200 resumes. Many of the assistants I know applied where all well qualied and put in more than there time. Trying to raise a family, working crazy hours while competing against a ton of others assistants and head pros to get that high paying job makes one think about getting in the business.
Like everyone said, assistants make nothing and put in a great deal of hours. The problem is there is no guartnee your going to get a head pro job. It is really hard to stand out among many others well qualifed assistants or teaching professionals.
I felt being a teaching professional is a great way to go. You don't have to worry about 15 different commitees, slow play issues, caddies screaming at you, dirty clubs and carts. At least when you teach you can specialize in one thing. Yes most clubs make you pay for rent of facilites or golf balls, but usually its a small amount.
Up north in MN, my home courses have moved from city run to leased. Leased now by one pro for two courses and assts basically doing the lessons, tourneys, carts, tickets, schedules, food, bevy cart. The maint superindents at both courses are up and comers (meaning less then the cost of one union sup before (one for each course). Basically trend up here and other places hire up and comers at lower rate, but there is the turnover. Trying to be a Asst Pro.....tough unless you know the pro and want to work crazy hrs. Summary, if you want to be a pro its a job like others, you gotta put the time in and prove yourself. Rewarding, yes......but many many years later.
S
SteveT
Guest
Surely the golf industry is rationalizing itself after the boom expansion .. it's contracting now and everything is downsizing due to the economy. Also the aging Baby Boomers are more reluctant to take lessons because they've maxed out and are just going with what they've got.
To succeed in the golf industry, you must differentiate yourself from the pack and rake in the suckers seeking a magic quick fix, or those who brag about which big name teacher they got a lesson from. I mean, just look at all the methods and systems that have come and gone in the last 10 years ..!!!!
I think Brian is doing the right thing by incorporating solid scientific information to distinguish himself from all the other "tailor-made custom swing" operators.
To succeed in the golf industry, you must differentiate yourself from the pack and rake in the suckers seeking a magic quick fix, or those who brag about which big name teacher they got a lesson from. I mean, just look at all the methods and systems that have come and gone in the last 10 years ..!!!!
I think Brian is doing the right thing by incorporating solid scientific information to distinguish himself from all the other "tailor-made custom swing" operators.
trickyric67
New
If you are in the Met section the average head pro job is $150,000.00 plus pro shop and an average assistant is about $30,000.00 salarie + lessons which could be from $10,000 to $20,000 for about 6-7 months. I guess it depends where you work.
Very interesting posts, thanks.
The market in the USA sounds very similar to that of the UK: Head Pro much better off than the Asssistant Pro, both in earnings and working hours. A Head Pro in the UK, like USA very dependent on region and club, will take home in my experience anywhere between $60k to 150k. Most will be at the bottom end of this scale, around $80k. Earnings come from a combination of retainer/salary/teaching/retail. All self-employed, no company car etc. He will have to employ Assistants and Trainees himself and pay them out of his own pocket. Trainees don't earn enough to survive, so most have some kind of family support until they qualify and become Assistant Pros, who normally also earn peanuts. Competition for the decent jobs is absurdly high - with hundreds of applications for any jobs as Head Pros. Again like USA, the "old boy network" together with "friends and family" connections is often the deciding factor in who gets the job. In recent years (the last 10-15) even these good jobs are less lucrative with clubs and owners stepping in and changing the contracts when someone was "earning too much". They could do this because the PGA GB&I kept (and still do) churning out 200-300 new pros every year until the market was saturated beyond belief. So it was a case of "take it or leave it" when the new contracts were offered.
Many PGA Pros left the industry for jobs such as semi-skilled tradesman or tried to retrain in other industries where they could earn more and work less. Many, especially younger guys and gals, went abroad to the new golf markets in Continental Europe where conditions were better.
The PGA GB&I had a forum facility on their website allowing PGA Pros to interact and there was a thread called "Too many Pros, not enough jobs" a couple of years ago which caused a heated debate which was so embarassing for the PGA that they pulled the whole forum under the pretence that there were "legal" issues which they couldn't control!! It has never been brought back.
Slowly however the same kind of development as in the UK has happended in many of the other European countries, but nowhere near to the same extent. Golf pros are generally better of on the Continent than in the UK. In Spain and Portugal where the UK influence is pretty high in terms of resort management, the conditions for pros are similar to the UK - but at least the weather is better
In northern Europe (Holland, Germany, France, Switzerland, Scandindavia etc) things are better, with many Pros being able to operate as full-time teachers due to the higher demand offered by growth in the numbers of people taking up the game and a better ratio of Pros per Golfer. Increasingly though they are having to pay more to work at the facilties and finance every aspect of their teaching themsleves, thus increasing profit for the facility at the cost of the pros. This development shows no signs of letting up.
I know a couple of guys in the US, who are working at big elite resorts as Head Pros/DoG making pretty big money, but that seems to be the tip of the iceberg. Again, thanks for sharing your knowledge.
The market in the USA sounds very similar to that of the UK: Head Pro much better off than the Asssistant Pro, both in earnings and working hours. A Head Pro in the UK, like USA very dependent on region and club, will take home in my experience anywhere between $60k to 150k. Most will be at the bottom end of this scale, around $80k. Earnings come from a combination of retainer/salary/teaching/retail. All self-employed, no company car etc. He will have to employ Assistants and Trainees himself and pay them out of his own pocket. Trainees don't earn enough to survive, so most have some kind of family support until they qualify and become Assistant Pros, who normally also earn peanuts. Competition for the decent jobs is absurdly high - with hundreds of applications for any jobs as Head Pros. Again like USA, the "old boy network" together with "friends and family" connections is often the deciding factor in who gets the job. In recent years (the last 10-15) even these good jobs are less lucrative with clubs and owners stepping in and changing the contracts when someone was "earning too much". They could do this because the PGA GB&I kept (and still do) churning out 200-300 new pros every year until the market was saturated beyond belief. So it was a case of "take it or leave it" when the new contracts were offered.
Many PGA Pros left the industry for jobs such as semi-skilled tradesman or tried to retrain in other industries where they could earn more and work less. Many, especially younger guys and gals, went abroad to the new golf markets in Continental Europe where conditions were better.
The PGA GB&I had a forum facility on their website allowing PGA Pros to interact and there was a thread called "Too many Pros, not enough jobs" a couple of years ago which caused a heated debate which was so embarassing for the PGA that they pulled the whole forum under the pretence that there were "legal" issues which they couldn't control!! It has never been brought back.
Slowly however the same kind of development as in the UK has happended in many of the other European countries, but nowhere near to the same extent. Golf pros are generally better of on the Continent than in the UK. In Spain and Portugal where the UK influence is pretty high in terms of resort management, the conditions for pros are similar to the UK - but at least the weather is better
In northern Europe (Holland, Germany, France, Switzerland, Scandindavia etc) things are better, with many Pros being able to operate as full-time teachers due to the higher demand offered by growth in the numbers of people taking up the game and a better ratio of Pros per Golfer. Increasingly though they are having to pay more to work at the facilties and finance every aspect of their teaching themsleves, thus increasing profit for the facility at the cost of the pros. This development shows no signs of letting up.I know a couple of guys in the US, who are working at big elite resorts as Head Pros/DoG making pretty big money, but that seems to be the tip of the iceberg. Again, thanks for sharing your knowledge.
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Richie3Jack
New
Cost of living is much higher as well.
I've had a few friends who have worked in the Met section as assistant pros. One got a really good deal on a house that he and 3 other guys rented for a year and he actually made out quite well that year. Another guy got a free place to stay on the course that he said was actually pretty decent. However, I had a buddy who worked up at a place in Chicago and he needed the free place to stay, but he said it was like living in a closet.
3JACK
Jared Willerson
Super Moderator
I think the authorization of all the pgm programs has helped make the golf profession less lucrative. Couple that with fewer golfers and golf courses and you have a profession really not worth entering.
I am afraid golf is going the way of tennis in the late 80's & early 90's. Tennis is recovering and golf will too, it is just a matter of riding out the storm.
I am afraid golf is going the way of tennis in the late 80's & early 90's. Tennis is recovering and golf will too, it is just a matter of riding out the storm.
cmartingolf
New
I just posted a note in another forum about this, Wulsy. Things are not easy out there. I know a few of the "Big Name" instructors and they are not making the money they pulled in prior to the economic downturn.
Club pros are lucky to crack 100K these days. You are way ahead of the curve if your in that margin and that is not that much money anymore. I used to thing "100K" was a big time, now it's "barely take care of the family time."
I've been a Director of Golf for 16 years now and I've seen salaries level off and decline in recent years. A lot of deals are going the other way as of late. Clubs know they can get a great pro for a bargain price these days. It is a "take it or leave it" situation.
All the stuff about Assistants working 60 hours a week doesn't happen anymore (or legally shouldn't) because of wage and hour laws. Sure the kids may be at the club, but you have to pay them. My assistants make 12-14 per hour and work 40 hours a week and every minute after that is overtime pay. You have to be careful who you put on salary. Hell, I'd love to work them 60 a week. It would be better for them! They'd really learn if they had what it takes to do the job.
When I was an assistant in 1992 I got paid $1400 per month and had about 36 hours of Shop time. I stayed at the club a ton of extra time to teach and play. I wasn't about to stay home for two days away from the course. I loved being at the club.
We all know it is a competitive business. If you want to get to a high level, which I've been fortunate to reach, you have to out compete "the pro next door."
It's a crappy business unless it's in your blood and you love it. Then, it's a great business and there's nothing you'd rather do. Working "a 40" is like being on vacation. I do that in the winter time when there is snow on the ground. In the summer, I'm there about 60, but is it work when you love it? The only thing that puts me off now, is that I have two small kids that I miss spending time with, but they are at the club a lot. If they couldn't be, I'd find a new club.
As far as "who gets the jobs?" A stacked resume is simply a place to start. You better know someone who was college roommates with the selection committee chairman.
Recently a very well know club hired a guy based on who know what premise. The guy was about to get booted out of the club and on his ear. Members couldn't stand the guy and went to bat to get him out of the place. There was a lawsuit between the guy and the club. The club where he landed is VERY well known. The new club has no idea what they got, but the guy could sure interview well, but more importantly, he has some powerful friends that really swayed things in his favor. I've got buddies at both clubs. It's rather amusing. The selection committee had/has no clue. I'm sure a lot of excellent professionals missed the opportunity because they didn't know the right person. Too bad.
Club pros are lucky to crack 100K these days. You are way ahead of the curve if your in that margin and that is not that much money anymore. I used to thing "100K" was a big time, now it's "barely take care of the family time."
I've been a Director of Golf for 16 years now and I've seen salaries level off and decline in recent years. A lot of deals are going the other way as of late. Clubs know they can get a great pro for a bargain price these days. It is a "take it or leave it" situation.
All the stuff about Assistants working 60 hours a week doesn't happen anymore (or legally shouldn't) because of wage and hour laws. Sure the kids may be at the club, but you have to pay them. My assistants make 12-14 per hour and work 40 hours a week and every minute after that is overtime pay. You have to be careful who you put on salary. Hell, I'd love to work them 60 a week. It would be better for them! They'd really learn if they had what it takes to do the job.
When I was an assistant in 1992 I got paid $1400 per month and had about 36 hours of Shop time. I stayed at the club a ton of extra time to teach and play. I wasn't about to stay home for two days away from the course. I loved being at the club.
We all know it is a competitive business. If you want to get to a high level, which I've been fortunate to reach, you have to out compete "the pro next door."
It's a crappy business unless it's in your blood and you love it. Then, it's a great business and there's nothing you'd rather do. Working "a 40" is like being on vacation. I do that in the winter time when there is snow on the ground. In the summer, I'm there about 60, but is it work when you love it? The only thing that puts me off now, is that I have two small kids that I miss spending time with, but they are at the club a lot. If they couldn't be, I'd find a new club.
As far as "who gets the jobs?" A stacked resume is simply a place to start. You better know someone who was college roommates with the selection committee chairman.
Recently a very well know club hired a guy based on who know what premise. The guy was about to get booted out of the club and on his ear. Members couldn't stand the guy and went to bat to get him out of the place. There was a lawsuit between the guy and the club. The club where he landed is VERY well known. The new club has no idea what they got, but the guy could sure interview well, but more importantly, he has some powerful friends that really swayed things in his favor. I've got buddies at both clubs. It's rather amusing. The selection committee had/has no clue. I'm sure a lot of excellent professionals missed the opportunity because they didn't know the right person. Too bad.
billmckinneygolf
New
Jawohl, Wulsy. Stay put there and just hit up the tanning bed once in a while and supplement some vitamin D...drink some Bitburger...good life there. Prost!
trickyric67
New
Richie,
I forgot that. Most Met section private clubs give their Assistants housing or housing allowance because it is a very expensive place to live.
trickyric67
New
I think it really depends a lot on the quality of the professional. There are to many range rats out there but what I would call "real" professionals, guy or gals who have played at least at the college level and spent their time earning a reputation in the private club world tend make a solid $100,000 + per year, which is good money in almost any profession (clearly a doctor or lawyer makes more). A good friend of mine who has been a top 50/top 100 teacher for almost 20 years had his own school at premiere facilities and made huge money. He would get hired from one big time club as a director of golf and have his school just to get more money to go to another high end facility for more cash. I used to call him "Brinks". He actually raised his prices hoping to have some students drop of to his staff instructors so he could get a break and his book got more filled! it was crazy. He is basically retired now and had to have made 3-4 hundred grand a year when that was crazy money.
Stimmt, Bill, hier kann man leben...
I've heard there's a lot of vitamins in the beer
, only problem is you end up with a belly like GMac without the swingClubs/committees/managers are always looking to increase profits these days and often think that the Pros have it too easy and could get by on less money. So things are going downhill, but it could be another 10 years before it gets bad enough that it will be a struggle to earn at least a decent living.
When one looks at some of the elite country clubs in the US, one can sometimes think its the land of milk and honey for those guys lucky and successful enough to be there as DoG but it sounds as if its a long hard road to even get close to that kind of facility and lifestyle. The guys I know in these kind of positions were always associated big names and had the right contacts - I think it a case of who you know, not what you know.
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