Golf Swing, April 2009

[kc8kir]

Alright, here it is.

Finally got some pictures of actually hitting a ball. Assembled a swing sequence shot out of them. I'm very proud of it, having only played about 2 years and having taken only a few odd and unsuccessful lessons.

The part that troubles me is the top of the backswing. I still go too far. Not stable at all. Gonna work on that.

The photos were taken at an angle... sorry about that! I'll do better next time to get them straight on from behind.

Shot shape here was about a 5 yard fade.

Please critique!

[media]http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu227/kc8kir/swingsequence.jpg[/media]

 

[jenhaoyen]

softdraw pattern time?

 

[kc8kir]

Maybe i should have mentioned...

My misses are pull hooks and blocks...

 

[vjsinger]

softdraw pattern time?

I think thats good advice. The right elbow folds pretty early in the BS, especially for how deep your hands are.

 

[kc8kir]

Only reason I'm against going SD at this point is I really prefer a fade. Down here in Texas, draws are dangerous. They run too much. The greens love fades, and hate draws. At least that is my experience so far...

 

[vjsinger]

You can customize the SD pattern if you don't want to hit a draw.

 

[jenhaoyen]

Only reason I'm against going SD at this point is I really prefer a fade. Down here in Texas, draws are dangerous. They run too much. The greens love fades, and hate draws. At least that is my experience so far...

yeah....I don't really have a draw anymore, I have a soft fade in SD.
FOr a while I was struggling with softdraw because it would kept running to the end of the green.

Man i love this forum.

 

[kc8kir]

What makes you think i'm flipping? I can't see it in the sequence, and I'm almost dead sure I had killed that flip quite a while ago. If anything, I've fought the problem of having hands too far ahead at impact!

 

[kc8kir]

Lol. Ok.

I really can't wait to hear Brian's take on the sequence!

 

[Burner]

Alright, here it is.

Finally got some pictures of actually hitting a ball. Assembled a swing sequence shot out of them. I'm very proud of it, having only played about 2 years and having taken only a few odd and unsuccessful lessons.

The part that troubles me is the top of the backswing. I still go too far. Not stable at all. Gonna work on that.

The photos were taken at an angle... sorry about that! I'll do better next time to get them straight on from behind.

Shot shape here was about a 5 yard fade.

Please critique!

[media]http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu227/kc8kir/swingsequence.jpg[/media]

Pictures 4, 13 & 14 hold all the clues to your need for improvement areas.

 

[kc8kir]

Lol... um... ok...

Looking at the "clues"

 

[Burner]

Lol... um... ok...

Looking at the "clues"

Too far inside too soon and way under plane on the back swing. You then adjust by lifting the club up and hoisting it over your shoulder putting you across the line at the end of your back swing - however, the camera angle may be adding or subtraction from this perception.

From being across the line at the top your down swing comes over plane, out to in and you then yank the club around way under plane in your follow through before lifting it all up again.

On the plus side, you do seem to hit some quite reasonable positions in frames 5, 6, 7 & 8 unfortunately though (camera angles notwithstanding) the damage has already been done.

Try some "shadow" swings with you back to a wall, arse almost touching it, and feel the difference in how you move the club up to the top without making contact with it.

Another drill is to make shadow swings whilst facing the wall. Try to keep your club head tracing the line where the wall and ground meet for as long as you can. Your pivot will inevitably prevent you from doing this for too long but by the time your left arm gets to being parallel with the ground it should also be parallel to the wall - check that position out against frame 4.

Similarly, on your follow through, try to keep the club head tracing this line for as long as possible before your pivot inevitably pulls you in and away from it. With your right arm parallel to the ground on your follow through (similar to on the take away) you should be near parallel to the line again - check that position out against frame 13.

Hope this helps you.

 

[kc8kir]

Interesting.

As a result of hooking the ball and coming off a long episode of shanks from being way too in-out, I began practicing trying to follow a more "left" path after the ball (even did Brian's yellow brick road drill - which works GREAT!). The swing thought in these pictures left hand up and back, then hands pulled to left pocket via the pivot, the idea being that the club should move in-square-in, producing a fade and stopping the raging hooks I had been hitting. The hands obviously never hit the left pocket, they swing past it, but it stops the instinct to slap the hands at the ball and still allows me a strong strike with both hands (sans flipping).

It works, but like you said, I still get the club way deep behind me, and the overswing yank / bounce frequently causing inconsistency. Viewing the path on a launch monitor, I can get the path reasonably straight. If I trying swinging more DTL, it inevitably goes way too far to the right or I cast the sucker from the top into a huge out-in path.

Sounds however like you suggest trying to keep the club more out in front of my chest, and swing more along the line, then down the line. I'm just really worried I'll get really handsy trying this. How do you move that club DTL that far without flipping it? Won't trying to keep it on the line too long on the backswing result in pop-out? I thought we wanted the hands, even in SD to move DEEP.

I do notice in the frames that my attempt to keep my flat left wrist at the top into the downswing is failing. I'm getting flat by impact, but the initial move down actually adds cup to my left wrist, which I then take out later. I'm wondering if cupping the wrist at the top of the swing instead of forcing it flat would be beneficial to my swing (since I'll inevitably cup it in the transition). I'm in no way suggesting having it cupped at impact. I've spent hours chipping to train a "twistaway" supination type motion into impact. The pictures show however, that I do it from the "sensation" of a cupped left wrist, and not a flat one.

Would cupping the left wrist on the backswing help to keep the club more in front and not get it sucked behind as the left forearm rotates? Would it then arrive at the top in position to transition without yanking so much?

Just an idea. I'm totally open to experimenting on the range to make this swing better. Shoot, it's what I do every time I go practice. A little of this, a little of that... this thought, that thought, etc. Swinging to left pocket is really the first swing thought / idea that has worked for me day after day, every day, without failing. Of course, it could always just be hiding a larger fault.

 

[Burner]

Interesting.

As a result of hooking the ball and coming off a long episode of shanks from being way too in-out, I began practicing trying to follow a more "left" path after the ball (even did Brian's yellow brick road drill - which works GREAT!). The swing thought in these pictures left hand up and back, then hands pulled to left pocket via the pivot, the idea being that the club should move in-square-in, producing a fade and stopping the raging hooks I had been hitting. The hands obviously never hit the left pocket, they swing past it, but it stops the instinct to slap the hands at the ball and still allows me a strong strike with both hands (sans flipping).

It works, but like you said, I still get the club way deep behind me, and the overswing yank / bounce frequently causing inconsistency. Viewing the path on a launch monitor, I can get the path reasonably straight. If I trying swinging more DTL, it inevitably goes way too far to the right or I cast the sucker from the top into a huge out-in path.

Sounds however like you suggest trying to keep the club more out in front of my chest, and swing more along the line, then down the line. I'm just really worried I'll get really handsy trying this. How do you move that club DTL that far without flipping it? Won't trying to keep it on the line too long on the backswing result in pop-out? I thought we wanted the hands, even in SD to move DEEP.

I do notice in the frames that my attempt to keep my flat left wrist at the top into the downswing is failing. I'm getting flat by impact, but the initial move down actually adds cup to my left wrist, which I then take out later. I'm wondering if cupping the wrist at the top of the swing instead of forcing it flat would be beneficial to my swing (since I'll inevitably cup it in the transition). I'm in no way suggesting having it cupped at impact. I've spent hours chipping to train a "twistaway" supination type motion into impact. The pictures show however, that I do it from the "sensation" of a cupped left wrist, and not a flat one.

Would cupping the left wrist on the backswing help to keep the club more in front and not get it sucked behind as the left forearm rotates? Would it then arrive at the top in position to transition without yanking so much?

Just an idea. I'm totally open to experimenting on the range to make this swing better. Shoot, it's what I do every time I go practice. A little of this, a little of that... this thought, that thought, etc. Swinging to left pocket is really the first swing thought / idea that has worked for me day after day, every day, without failing. Of course, it could always just be hiding a larger fault.

Perhaps it would help if we switch your focus away from the club head (with its steering connotations, possibly) and into your hands.

What you need here is 4 dowels, each about 4' long.

Place 2 of the dowels on your target line one in front and one back of the ball.

Place the other 2 dowels parallel to, but inside of, your target line; one in front, and one back of the ball.

Set your stance so that the "inside" dowels are in your line of sight but directly below your hands. This will be some place between your toe ends and the target line. The precise location varies from club to club.

Trace the line of the inside dowels with your hands and ignore the club head completely; then be amazed at the on plane positions your club head achieves back and forwards as your left arm, going back, and your right arm going forwards, reach their parallel to the ground positions. No "pop out" on the back swing and no left pocket malarkey on the down swing. Just a nice and simple on plane movement.

Once you are comfortable with this procedure just extend the backward movement up to the top of your back swing by completing your pivot and your forward movement by going on to a normal full finish.

No hand cupping, or other manipulation, should be necessary. Just keep your hands exactly as they were at address and see how they (miraculously ) change orientation and achieve their desired locations as you execute these motions.

You can set up this workstation at home and drill without balls or you can take it to the range and go at it for real.

The results, I trust, will be worth the effort you commit to the process.

 

[kc8kir]

So basically try stiff wristing it straight back, and straight through?

I'll try it!

 

[savydan]

I agree w/ Burner about your arm positions and their corrections....

But speaking of arms, you are basically all arms. They wrap around you both ways.

To get to the next level, you need to incorporate better body movement in your swing. Give it some structure.

The simplest way to say it is: Get your weight to your right leg more deliberately on the backswing and get to your left leg more deliberately on the downswing. Frame 14: you should be ON your left leg at this point. Even though you're on your right toe, there's too much weight hanging back at this point.

Good stuff for only 2 years playing.

 

[kc8kir]

Lol. I really have to laugh here ...

Everyone tells me I swing all arms, when in fact I feel like I swing NO arms. I do a lot of feet together swings, letting the body control the motion. I don't know why the "pivot" never appears more dynamic, but I'm guessing it's a result of a lot of flexibility. Heck the first drill my Dad taught me was step right step left step right step left, and hit about 20 balls in a row. It was a tempo / sequencing thing that really got me started.

If I start stepping any more right then left, I'm gonna fall over. No, I'm being serious! I used to lift the left heel on the backswing and replant it for even more power (got out of that habit in an attempt to tighten things up for consistency).

Yeah yeah... I know, sounds like excuses. But unless my sensation of using the body is just totally incorrect, I'm not swinging all arms. Believe you me, there is a lot of body input in that swing!

I used to be a rather good baseball batter... probably the only thing that has helped me so far in being able to get to where I am.

So I guess the question is, if someone has really good flexibility, how does it affect the appearance of a dynamic pivot? Will it appear smoother?

I tell you, I'm all for more clubhead speed, but only with accuracy to back it up!

 

[vjsinger]

Lol. I really have to laugh here ...

Everyone tells me I swing all arms, when in fact I feel like I swing NO arms. I do a lot of feet together swings, letting the body control the motion. I don't know why the "pivot" never appears more dynamic, but I'm guessing it's a result of a lot of flexibility. Heck the first drill my Dad taught me was step right step left step right step left, and hit about 20 balls in a row. It was a tempo / sequencing thing that really got me started.

If I start stepping any more right then left, I'm gonna fall over. No, I'm being serious! I used to lift the left heel on the backswing and replant it for even more power (got out of that habit in an attempt to tighten things up for consistency).

Yeah yeah... I know, sounds like excuses. But unless my sensation of using the body is just totally incorrect, I'm not swinging all arms. Believe you me, there is a lot of body input in that swing!

I used to be a rather good baseball batter... probably the only thing that has helped me so far in being able to get to where I am.

So I guess the question is, if someone has really good flexibility, how does it affect the appearance of a dynamic pivot? Will it appear smoother?

I tell you, I'm all for more clubhead speed, but only with accuracy to back it up!

I agree with you..as you say you are not "all arms", if anything all pivot. IMO, What you need to understand is how the arms work in a basic, middle of the road Backswing. The arms swing up and to your right shoulder, while you simultaneously pivot...thats it, thats all there is to it. Swing the arms up and to the right while you pivot and you got it, or at least you are much closer. Brian has talked about this before when speaking of a Gene Littler(sp?) backswing. Up and to the right, thats it. Best of luck.

P.S. I, like you, have a natural ability to turn easily. What does that mean? You need to be able to swing those arms up and to the right with better timing and heck just better. For you its gonna feel like you barely turn, but trust me you will.

 

[savydan]

I hear ya!

I guess I am seeing in stills what your friends are seeing live.

First, the feet together drill is to teach the body to be responsive to the arms. IMO, that's NOT what you need. I think you need the opposite.

Some comments:

1: I think you may be a little too fixated on staring at the ball which freezes your body. I'm being a little bit of a mind reader here, but I see it in other frames too.

2: No body motion started: just your arms. Soft Draw wants you already moving to your right foot here. Body LEADS the arms.

3: Right elbow pretty straight; should be softer and bending more at this point.

4: Snap. Your right elbow had to give cause you're wrapping the club around you.

5: Your lower body should be starting to move back to the target right now, but it can't because you are waiting for your arm lift due to them being out of position as mentioned by Burner.

7: Your body is basically dead here. It's centered over the ball and your weight has no where to go because you really didn't coil into your right leg so you can't really go to your left leg. You're basically waiting for your arms to get back to the ball.

7-11: To me, you're pulling on the club with a dead body.

12: Evidence of ball fixation. Your body should have naturally moved your head more here.

14: Effect picture: Your arms dominated a passive body.

Suggestions: Dump the feet together drill. Put a priority on coiling into your right leg. Let your head drift a few inches to the right. Try not to stare intently on the ball. Just be aware of it. Let the right elbow fold earlier. Feel the ground with your feet and let your legs and feet move you back and through a la Soft Draw. I think it would be great to see a true face-on angle.

 

[Whiteflash]

Perhaps it would help if we switch your focus away from the club head (with its steering connotations, possibly) and into your hands.

What you need here is 4 dowels, each about 4' long.

Place 2 of the dowels on your target line one in front and one back of the ball.

Place the other 2 dowels parallel to, but inside of, your target line; one in front, and one back of the ball.

Set your stance so that the "inside" dowels are in your line of sight but directly below your hands. This will be some place between your toe ends and the target line. The precise location varies from club to club.

Trace the line of the inside dowels with your hands and ignore the club head completely; then be amazed at the on plane positions your club head achieves back and forwards as your left arm, going back, and your right arm going forwards, reach their parallel to the ground positions. No "pop out" on the back swing and no left pocket malarkey on the down swing. Just a nice and simple on plane movement.

Once you are comfortable with this procedure just extend the backward movement up to the top of your back swing by completing your pivot and your forward movement by going on to a normal full finish.

No hand cupping, or other manipulation, should be necessary. Just keep your hands exactly as they were at address and see how they (miraculously ) change orientation and achieve their desired locations as you execute these motions.

You can set up this workstation at home and drill without balls or you can take it to the range and go at it for real.

The results, I trust, will be worth the effort you commit to the process.

Any way you could post a pic of this setup? Not sure I am visualizing this correctly.