Golf Swing, April 2009

[kc8kir]

Well, bad weather here today, so I'm fooling around indoors with the backswing. Taking it back to basics here, I notice if I hold the club out in front of me like baseball, I can swing it in a large arc and it nicely sets the arms and wrists. When I try to whip it and return it to an "impact" position with my body motion, I really get that "sit down" pop feeling into impact (a la baseball). Funny, it's not a sensation I get in the golf swing (at least not quite as much).

Would it be beneficial in helping reshape my backswing to just tilt this exercise until I get the plane of the swing more towards the ground? Is this the kind of "middle of the road" backswing we are talking about?

 

[savydan]

That's basically what I do.

Some forearm roll and right elbow bend.

I agree it's easier to do at waist high and then move it gradually down to the ground.

Personally, I try to do it soley with my right arm and keep my left arm inert. I am naturally left handed and if I give my left arm an assignment, it wants to pull too hard on the downswing and screws everything up like my weight shift back left. But this part is just me and probably years of just tugging on the club with my left arm.

But back to you, I think it's a great and simple way of learning the backswing arm feels especially for the S.D. pattern.

One note: please try to make the move back to the left a lower body move, and do it consiously before you complete the upper body backswing move (turn and arm swing). This is also right out of Soft Draw.

IMO, there are 5 ways to do a lower body move back to the left:

1. Counterfall - like Soft Draw. Use your feet and ankles to feel like you are falling a little left.
2. Right foot kick - a la Ballard. Makes sense since that's where your weight is.
3. Left hip rotation to the left - a la Hogan.
4. Little lateral hip slide left - just don't over do it.
5. Some combination of the above.

 

[kc8kir]

Alright great! I'll keep at it.

One other thing I notice is that with the "out in front" baseball swing, I have WAY more muscular extension on the backswing than I do ever on my golf swing.

Will achieving that same extension in my golf swing help with the backswing consistency?

 

[savydan]

Definately.

Back to me, I assign my right arm the job of keeping my left arm straight. It's often referred to as extensor action in TGM terms.

But don't over do it. You don't want your left arm stiff or ram-rod straight because it can lead to blocks. (A locked lead arm at impact will prevent a natural and correct release.)

But, yes, for some reason it's easier to do at waist high than at ground level. Could be that when you're bent over a little bit in your golf posture you loose a little of the feeling of what's going on "over there". But it's still what you gotta do and it's a good drill.

 

[Burner]

So basically try stiff wristing it straight back, and straight through?

I'll try it!

Nope! Simply trace the line of the dowels beneath your hands in order to start back on plane and follow through on plane. You are drilling a feeling of where you should get to and how, whilst wiping out the poor motions you currently employ.

As for the hands, just do not manipulate or add wrist action; or forearm rotation and all that other stuff either - it will happen without conscious effort from you.

Savydan mentioned, as a separate issue, that your pivot was lacking a little and I think that is true, in part. However, my take is that you pivot too much and too early in the back swing, which leaves you, possibly, with too much weight on your left side - reverse pivot like. On the down swing this stops you from getting your right side (weight) through the ball resulting in a shift of weight back on to your right foot; as well as being a contributory factor in the yanking of your arms sharply around your body post impact.

Getting the start of the back swing and the follow through right will cure those issues also.

 

[Burner]

Any way you could post a pic of this setup? Not sure I am visualizing this correctly.

Sorry mate, I'm not that cute. However, picture yourself at the side of a railway track and taking your stance with your hands directly above the nearest rail. The outer rail is your target line and the one the ball sits on.

Arrange your dowels just so and take a journey to golfing nirvana.

 

[vjsinger]

Okay my opinion, just to simplify it. Stand in your address posture no backswing turn, swing your arms up and to the right shoulder while "keeping the club and arms in front of you", now turn into your back leg and make a backswing pivot. Check it in a mirror, its in a good spot, backswing done, thats the "feel", just blend that in a normal swing...as for the downswing, that depends on the ball flight after you groove the backswing pivot. You may need more carry you may need twistaway etc., not sure yet, but I do think the backswing is killing you. My 2 cents take or leave it..all the best.

 

[kc8kir]

Maybe it would help if I go back to a little more Jack Nicklaus, less Ben Hogan.

Start thinking "hands high" on the backswing.

Basically look for that big extension on the backswing to the sky instead of way behind me.

 

[vjsinger]

If that helps you with the image..yeah, but the drill I described is full proof. There is a new video out that Mike Jacobs and Brian made called "10 things every golfer should know", pick that up off of Mikes site and it goes into detail what Im preaching. Its very orthodox and easy to learn...even for us BIG pivoters. I believe this "pattern" would be perfect for you. Best of luck. I hope you find your way.

 

[jenhaoyen]

Maybe it would help if I go back to a little more Jack Nicklaus, less Ben Hogan.

Start thinking "hands high" on the backswing.

Basically look for that big extension on the backswing to the sky instead of way behind me.

hands up in the sky always feels good man. Thumb under the club more oat the top of the backswing

 

[Burner]

Maybe it would help if I go back to a little more Jack Nicklaus, less Ben Hogan.

Start thinking "hands high" on the backswing.

Basically look for that big extension on the back swing to the sky instead of way behind me.

You may find it better to persevere with the shorter swing until you gain control over getting the club on plane in the back swing.

Nothing much to be gained at all really by taking your hands above shoulder height, or looking for "that big extension", on the back swing - except problems associated with over swinging and being off plane, of course. But you found that out already: its where we came in.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Id try flattening your shoulder turn and getting your arms a little more up so youd have somewhere for them to go in the downswing other than "out".

 

[kc8kir]

Thanks for all the input everyone.

I'm gonna get to work here on my swing and I'll report back. I played today and really focused on weight shift, turning behind the ball (right shoulder more towards right foot), hands high to the sky. When I did it, I hit some absolute lasers. Played decently overall, but still much work to do.

I need to stabilize my backswing. Slow motion drills, etc. Right now it's all over the place. I can do it in a mirror all day long, then I step up to a golf ball and totally botch it.

Question: When I started playing I read Nicklaus's Golf My Way. I setup with the club more forward pressed. Not too much mind you, but enough that in a mirror, the club lined up with the left arm. Would this be helpful in my attempt to stabilize the backswing?

 

[savydan]

Brian has a good video on this, including Nicklaus comments, on youtube. Mid-Body vs. Impact Hands.

I have had success either way but go back to mid-body more often because I can do what I want to do with my arms from a mid-body start.

 

[kc8kir]

You know the advice is good when...

...it starts working the first time you try it!

Today was a great day at the range. Worked on much more out and up in the backswing, along with getting the shoulders squared at impact (more of a face the ball at impact snap move versus a pull left spin left move). Very much improved in all clubs. 3 Wood was still tricky, ball position being rather sensitive and my tempo at the top (transition) still having a tendency to get way too quick. I had to think more of swing up, pause, fire. Then the shots started to come together. Very long too! Misses were low pulls. Good thing though...no BLOCK SLICES or DUCK HOOKS!

I'd never focused on "square the shoulders at impact" before, and was very surprised to see it work so well. Didn't require much hand action to square the club either. Actually gave me something to focus on body wise in the downswing that made the club behave.

The only other thing I did was apply a little forward press at address (a la Jack Nicklaus).

Here's hoping it keeps getting better! I'll report back soon.

 

[vjsinger]

KC..What has changed from this swing?

 

[kc8kir]

Thinning everything and back to hooking the heck out of it. Squaring shoulders was a band aid that didn't last.

Grrrr.....

I'll get new video up once this rain clears.

 

[softconsult]

I just saw this thread. Didn't realize you are only 2 years into playing golf.
You are not doing too bad. Remember, there are literally 10's of thousands of long time golfers hitting it worse than you do in these pictures.

 

[mew09golfer]

As others indicate,

Backswing: too much around, needs more up. Similarly needs more extension with less early folding of right arm/elbow.

Study picture 4. Right elbow should still be "higher" than left.

 

[kc8kir]

Just FYI, swing has changed a good bit since these photos.