Guys, tell me if i'm on the right track

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jenhaoyen

jenhaoyen

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So i have been practicing alot :D it's fun to try out all the BM patterns.

I noticed a few things.

If you have a slightly flat backswing, it's not good to have a flatwrist. The flat wrist on top makes the club really shut. You might pull your ball with your short irons and push with your longer club. You probably need a slightly bend wrist to have a good clubface position on top. But you can achieve a flat wrist on top with more shoulder tilt on top and that makes a perfect club face position.

For me, personally I don't like to bend my wrist because i feel like it's extra work and it's inconsistent.

I hope I'm on the right track.
 
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jenhaoyen said:
I have a slightly strong grip that BM suggested.

but I think even if you have a weak grip and you have a really flat back swing your club face would be really really shut if it's flat.
Click to expand...

How?

If you have a weak grip that is flat at top the face should match the wrist.
 
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Amen Corner

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Been searching in the archives. Here is another quote from Brian.

If you have "Manzella Neutral" Grip (matching the score lines to the VISUALLY FLAT left wrist and forearm), and you wind up with the clubface so-called "laying on the plane," your left wrist will be VISUALLT FLAT and turned the same amount OPEN as the clubface.
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I was trying to find a thread where he put up picture of both VJ and Tiger with the text "this is a flat left wrist".

Found it
http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/...hat-flat-left-wrist-looks-like.html#post85953

Does it look like the club is shut?
 
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jenhaoyen

jenhaoyen

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Amen Corner said:
Been searching in the archives. Here is another quote from Brian.



I was trying to find a thread where he put up picture of both VJ and Tiger with the text "this is a flat left wrist".

Found it
http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/...hat-flat-left-wrist-looks-like.html#post85953

Does it look like the club is shut?
Click to expand...

Ok, now imagine those two standing up straight alil without bending so much down, now you have the club face more towards the sky. That's what I meant. Those don't look shut to me.
 
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jenhaoyen said:
Ok, now imagine those two standing up straight alil without bending so much down, now you have the club face more towards the sky. That's what I meant. Those don't look shut to me.
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J,

I get you now, the face more towards the sky - yepp.

Although

If you have a slightly flat backswing, it's not good to have a flatwrist. The flat wrist on top makes the club really shut. You might pull your ball with your short irons and push with your longer club
Click to expand...
.

the important word is might here. You could still hit it good.

How flat are we talking about? What posture are we talking about?
 
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K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
jenhaoyen said:
zack johnson. :D
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Zach Johnson doesnt rotate anymore than the average tour player and a helluva lot less than many. Just because Kostis says he does, doesnt make it so. His upper body is facing the ball at impact.

BTW, his face isnt even that under rotated. His flat turn and arm swing make the club point to the sky more so it looks that way. He holds on not because his face is closed, it's because he has a full sweep release. Tom Watson looked like this as well. And anyway, how many times has this been addressed on this forum? Clubfaces arent closed, some are just less open.

Guys with so called closed faces at the top only rotate excessively if they fade (Duval, Trevino). There's a ton of "shut face" players who dont rotate a ton by the time the get to impact. They just look like anybody else on tour.
 
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mjstrong

mjstrong

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Kevin Shields said:
Guys with so called closed faces at the top only rotate excessively if they fade (Duval, Trevino). There's a ton of "shut face" players who dont rotate a ton by the time the get to impact. They just look like anybody else on tour.
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Do you think that there are more "shut face" players who play well with a fade, or with a draw? There seems to be many more TOUR players on the "closed" side of "square" than open, and I'm wondering what ball flight that translates into. Azinger, Duval, Trevino all played fades, who are some of the most prominent draw players with similar looking clubfaces at the top?

Funk? Parnevik (draw, I believe)? Wetterich? Boo? Jimenez? Z Johnson? Scott Hend? Oberholser?

I'm just wondering if the world's best players have found it easier to play a fade from a "closed" face position. Playing a draw from this closed face could probably promote a case of snap hooks once in a while.
 
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Kevin Shields

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I disagree. IMO, most top players who fight the occasional snipe do it from an underneath, out to the right, slightly open face that shuts fast thru impact. Most tour players that have this "shut face" look have no problem with leakage and thus do not get the excessive closing of the face. They might overcook it due to the extra downward hit (thus more in to out) most of these players have (boo, parnevik, lehman). Just my take.
 
mjstrong

mjstrong

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Kevin Shields said:
I disagree. IMO, most top players who fight the occasional snipe do it from an underneath, out to the right, slightly open face that shuts fast thru impact. Most tour players that have this "shut face" look have no problem with leakage and thus do not get the excessive closing of the face. They might overcook it due to the extra downward hit (thus more in to out) most of these players have (boo, parnevik, lehman). Just my take.
Click to expand...

I agree with you 100% on why most players fight a snipe, but am wondering about the tendencies of closed-face players.

Do you (or anybody) know what the ball flight from the list of players above is? I tried to find all the "closed" face players that I had clear swing sequences of, and am wondering what their corresponding ball flight was. I know that most of these guys can hit either without too much trouble, but am looking for their stock, predominant shot.

I mean, we've now learned (new D plan info) that a cut that starts to the left of the target, and fades inwards, needs to be struck with a closed face (relative to the target) at separation, so a slightly closed face throughout the swing may in fact be easier to hit a controlled fade from? Just trying to think outside the box...

EDIT: I hope I'm not thread-jacking here...
 
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Bronco Billy

Bronco Billy

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Shut/Closed Face Players are in REALITY Square Face Players.....

Kevin Shields said:
Zach Johnson doesnt rotate anymore than the average tour player and a helluva lot less than many. Just because Kostis says he does, doesnt make it so. His upper body is facing the ball at impact.

BTW, his face isnt even that under rotated. His flat turn and arm swing make the club point to the sky more so it looks that way. He holds on not because his face is closed, it's because he has a full sweep release. Tom Watson looked like this as well. And anyway, how many times has this been addressed on this forum? Clubfaces arent closed, some are just less open .

Guys with so called closed faces at the top only rotate excessively if they fade (Duval, Trevino). There's a ton of "shut face" players who dont rotate a ton by the time the get to impact. They just look like anybody else on tour.
Click to expand...

So Called Shut/Closed Face Players Should be Called Square Face Players.... Square Face is Defined as the ClubFace is Square to the Target Line Throughout the GolfSwing .... Have a Great Day with Your New Found Knowledge.....:)

Ps. Tom Watson Made a Descent Living Using NSA......
 
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