Guys, tell me if i'm on the right track

[Kevin Shields]

"Shut Face" players' ballflight

I agree with you 100% on why most players fight a snipe, but am wondering about the tendencies of closed-face players.

Do you (or anybody) know what the ball flight from the list of players above is? I tried to find all the "closed" face players that I had clear swing sequences of, and am wondering what their corresponding ball flight was. I know that most of these guys can hit either without too much trouble, but am looking for their stock, predominant shot.

I mean, we've now learned (new D plan info) that a cut that starts to the left of the target, and fades inwards, needs to be struck with a closed face (relative to the target) at separation, so a slightly closed face throughout the swing may in fact be easier to hit a controlled fade from? Just trying to think outside the box...

EDIT: I hope I'm not thread-jacking here...

Ive seen them all up close.

Low, piercing fades:
Duval, Azinger, Trevino (all ridiculously low)
Lots of delay, lots of open body at impact

Low draws:
Weekly, Parnevik, Wetterich
Lots of delay, steep in to out contact, not always rotary

High Draws:
Watson, Weiskoph, Z. Johnson, Lehman, young Tiger
Either Slide and tilt -or- sweep release shallow hit

 

[Bronco Billy]

Square Face Aka Shut Face is Truly a Virtue Not the Plague...

Ive seen them all up close.

Low, piercing fades:
Duval, Azinger, Trevino (all ridiculously low)
Lots of delay, lots of open body at impact

Low draws:
Weekly, Parnevik, Wetterich
Lots of delay, steep in to out contact, not always rotary

High Draws:
Watson, Weiskoph, Z. Johnson, Lehman, young Tiger
Either Slide and tilt -or- sweep release shallow hit

Tom Watson in His Prime Giving Last Rights.....

 

[mjstrong]

Ive seen them all up close.

Low, piercing fades:
Duval, Azinger, Trevino (all ridiculously low)
Lots of delay, lots of open body at impact

Low draws:
Weekly, Parnevik, Wetterich
Lots of delay, steep in to out contact, not always rotary

High Draws:
Watson, Weiskoph, Z. Johnson, Lehman, young Tiger
Either Slide and tilt -or- sweep release shallow hit

Can't ask for a much better breakdown than that.

 

[birdie_man]

I wonder if it is physically harder TO swing left enough with too closed of a clubface. I am talking about with a neutral grip though. And thus (for the clubface to be more closed than "neutral") also an arched left wrist at the top.

I am talking about "mechanics impeding alignments," per-se.

And I am not sure if it is just psychological BTW but in the past I always did feel like I could not physically swing as left with an arched left wrist.

Just thinking about it now I'm not sure if it would be any different with a stronger grip and a clubface more closed than "neutral" at the top. (i.e. stronger than neutral grip and flat left wrist would not have the clubface matching your left forearm at the top)

Cause obviously Trevino and Duval (strong grippers) swung plenty left to hit consistent Hall Of Fame quality fades.

I will have to do a little experiment.

BTW if any of this is true I guess it would somewhat validate what Gary Player said about E-Rick Woods in that Golf Channel clip.

(even though I have criticized that clip a fair bit)

 

[birdie_man]

Bronco how is Tom Watson related to NSA?

 

[Bronco Billy]

He TwistAways on the BackSwing to Square.. Holds This Square Face on the DownSwing..

Bronco how is Tom Watson related to NSA?

Have a Great Day With Your New Found Knowledge.....

 

[birdie_man]

Is he arched at the top? I really have nothing against his swing BTW. (honestly)

 

[Bronco Billy]

I Don't Know Who This Guy is....But Check the Arched(Square) Wrist at Impact...

Is he arched at the top? I really have nothing against his swing BTW. (honestly)

 

[brucifer]

if you look closely, I don't think he's at impact.

 

[Bronco Billy]

Exactly.... Near Impact... But the ClubFace is Still SQUARE as Hell.....

if you look closely, I don't think he's at impact.

Also Notice How the Left Arm DEFINES the DownSwing Plane.... This is the DownSwing Plane of The Ideal GolfSwing/Pattern.... Also This is the Same Plane(Left Arm Definition) Iron Byron Uses .... Who the Hell is The Guy in the Picture.... He Seems to Know What He is Doing......

Ps. Yes Iron Byron is LeftHanded.....

 

[rcw]

Sweep?

"He holds on not because his face is closed, it's because he has a full sweep release"

I am not quite seeing a full sweep release. Maybe random, but I see more of snap. Help me understand how you see this swing being full sweep...

 

[Kevin Shields]

"He holds on not because his face is closed, it's because he has a full sweep release"

I am not quite seeing a full sweep release. Maybe random, but I see more of snap. Help me understand how you see this swing being full sweep...

Call it whatever, but check out his iron swing.

 

[rcw]

Whatever?

I have seen his iron swing.

I do not see full sweep release. Maybe I am wrong, just do not see it. I see more of a random or snap.

Call it whatever? That does not make sense. You are the one that used it in your answer.
I think that is one of the good things about TGM is a common terminology.

I believe I have the terminology correct.

So just help me understand why you say it is a full sweep, and how that is relevant.

I am not trying to argue, I just want to understand your answer...


Oh yeah, i do see more of full sweep in Watsons.

 

[jenhaoyen]

hey guys, i feel like this thread has gone somewhere else. So let's do this again.

By using lagging clubhead takeaway, you take out the hands action. If you focus too much on your hands action and has alot of tension on your lefthand or right hand, this could cause you serious problems. Taking the hands out of the backswing, is the way to go I believe.

 

[Kevin Shields]

I have seen his iron swing.

I do not see full sweep release. Maybe I am wrong, just do not see it. I see more of a random or snap.

Call it whatever? That does not make sense. You are the one that used it in your answer.
I think that is one of the good things about TGM is a common terminology.

I believe I have the terminology correct.

So just help me understand why you say it is a full sweep, and how that is relevant.

I am not trying to argue, I just want to understand your answer...


Oh yeah, i do see more of full sweep in Watsons.

OK, I'll start over. I dont mean whatever, as in totally whatever. I'll give you random, but its closer to sweep than snap. There is no way that is a snap, or late release, in any way. When his hands are at thigh height in the downswing, the club is almost at the ball. He leans forward so he doesnt crank the ground first. Very sweepy.

Watson and Johnson, IMO, have similar approaches into the ball and very similar post impact positions in that thay "hang on" to an early release. Same as Nick Price. But the earlier questions were about these so called shut face players who have to rotate to avoid hooking. Total nonsense, yet held as fact by the general golfing world.

 

[rcw]

Ok

I can see where you are coming from. Thanks for the elaboration. Random I could also go with. i guess it does not matter. I agree on the face issue , don't agree with much Kostis says.