Harding Park - SF, CA

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EdZ

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Just played the 'new and improved' Harding Park yesterday. They did an outstanding job of taking a dog track (the conditions were simply, as bad as you could find, the layout has always been good), and making it top notch. Great work on the greens, and contouring of the fairways.

Looking forward to seeing what the pros can do there... the back nine, from 14 on, will make for some VERY good golf IF the wind is up. They opened up a LOT, cut tons of trees. When the wind is up, watch out (if it is still, they'll eat it up). Length from the tips should be a good test, depending on how soft things are when the pros play (I hope they keep it soft, harder that way). They will need to make a couple of the par 5's into 4's, as they are the weak point of the course IMO, especially 9, which would be eagle central.

I recommend that if you get the chance, check it out. Compare to the Lake course across the street, and you'll see how much potential this public track has for some big time play.

To those that worked on this - well done, and thank you.
 

EdZ

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Welcome to Harding Park gentlemen.

I thought I'd post a copy of some notes I put on Lynn's site. Very interesting to see who can 'read' the course properly. You won't see conditions at Harding as nice as today very often ;)

Unfortunate that Lynn's site is down and I don't have a copy of what I posted on this machine, suffice to say, it is very unique to see the pros play a course that one knows very well. I've hit every single shot they played today. The top players at my home course, and a public one. Very cool.

Heads up, the wind is on the way!

The back nine on Sunday will certainly test the champion. No doubt. The winning score 15....14....13....12....



Daly on 5 today - nice. Very little margin there.

What a pleasure it is to watch!
 

EdZ

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My thanks to Mike (Trig) for pulling my post from Lynn's forum....

One of my life long dreams is coming true this week. Watching what the pros do at my home course!

I grew up playing Harding park. My first job was at the range. It was always a wonderful track, but was in suck terrible shape you'd never know what you'd find for a lie! (for those who have a chance Sharp Park in Pacifica is also tons of fun, but still in terrible shape)

I've only played the course twice since it has been redone, had 78 both times from the tips, giving up shots mostly because I didn't know the changes that had been made. To that end, I thought I'd post a few notes........

1st - basically the same as it has always been. One of the easier holes on the course, but with small/deceptive fairway contours that can send a tee shot into some trouble. Second shot - beware the wind off the lake - you can't feel it.

2nd - this used to be the 7th - as with many/most holes the biggest change has been the loss of so many of the great trees that had defined Harding for years. Both sides of the fairway used to have many more/thicker trees with branches that made any shot off of center a challenge. The green dries out much faster than any of the others and has some subtle/hidden ridges. Being long here is a tougher shot than you might think. Again, beware the wind off the lake. Not much trouble short so a bump and run is aways an option on the approach

3rd - a nice par 3. Distance control is absolutely critical to have any chance at a bird and the uphill/wind factor makes this very tough. Do NOT go long. The bunker on the right will see a lot of action and is often an easier play than the one on the left IF you get a decent lie. Not much change to this hole at all aside from the tee being moved back

4th - one of my favorite par fives that they made EASIER from the tips than it used to be. I was disappointed by the choice they made here. Used to require a big draw off the tee, which now can be played nearly straight (original was much like 13th tee shot at Augusta). Players used to bomb over the trees on the left back in the 60's, but they have grown! With the tees moved now, look for some to risk a bold tee shot here. You may see some eagles, but it will require two great shots to a fairly small green (although one of the bigger on the front side). The wind will hit your approach at its apex only if it is blowing hard - which can knock it down quick and put you in the front bunker - a tough lip to get over in the wrong spot. Not a lot of change here other than the tee being moved. Again, watch the mounds in the fairway off the tee, the second shot is easier from the left side and there is plenty of room to the right for your approach shot (I suspect they will make this some nasty rough though). Watch the branches on the left side for your third.

5th - a tricky tee shot when the wind is up, but otherwise not too bad, just narrow. Requires a slight draw but the wind can be very helpful here. Very little change except the green is tougher now. Very small landing areas to get it close. The miss is left - long or right and bad bounces will kill you. Stay below the hole, there is much more slope than you might first think. Despite the short length, par is a good score here.

6th - trees on the left used to be much more of a factor, but still are. No significant changes to the design. You MUST watch the wind on this one, especially on the approach, but it can grab a drive and put you in the right rough. You can not feel the wind from the tee, and it is always stronger than you think on the 2nd shot. Pay close attention here.
The green is large (by Harding standards), lots of subtle slope, most of which moves towards the 8th tee and not directly towards the lake. Do not be long.

7th - birdie time - an easy hole given good position off the tee. You'll see plenty of guys hitting this green off the tee and probably several eagles. Again, the loss of trees has really change this one over the years.

8th - par 3 downhill - club selection is KEY here. The front of the green is usually quite soft, so you can't always bounce one in to a tight pin. The right bunker is an easy play - long and/or left is much more difficult. No change here from the original. Putts won't move to the lake as much as you'd think, but there is a lot of subtle motion to this green.

9th - plays as a par 5 usually, which can be easily reached without any wind. Even as a par 4 for the tourney, nothing too special here. Straight away. Only a challenge when the wind is up and one of the biggest greens on the course. Avoid long left.

10th - par 5 - a birdie should be routine here. There used to be a very large tree guarding the approach which was a BIG factor. Now it is just a simple shot. Stay up on the right for a more level lie, or longer left if you can carry it enough - the second shots will kick down into the rough if you are too far left or not long enough, and can even go out of bounds.
Hardly any change at all here.

11th - a great par 3 downhill - watch the wind and don't be long or left. No changes here really.

12th - usually a par 5 - should be a tough par 4 for WGC - stay right off the tee, the trees on the left near the green are a bigger factor than you might think (and used to be much, much moreso). They made this green significantly smaller and more contoured than it used to be.

13th - the biggest change on the course. They moved the green way to the left and shaped the fairway on the left side to kick out any tee shot that is too far left. Cost me a triple the first time I played it (balls will kick out even from left center of the fairway. A fade is a MUST off the tee. The green is a tough one and the wind is really a big factor here - straight off the lake. Par is a good score here.

14th - a beautiful hole - not much change here, just added length. If you can really drive it long and carry the swale on the left it is a much easier shot. The fairway tilts VERY much to the lake and anything close to a level lie for your second is either a bomb off the tee, or a fluke. You can run it off the bank on the right with a draw, but a bad bounce will kill you and send you down into the abyss. Given a good tee shot, the green isn't too tough and there should be some birdies here.

15th - stay to the right or really bomb one down the left and get lucky. You can run it all the way down the hill, but you'll have a very sloped stance for your second straight uphill. Watch the wind on the second. The tee shot is the key. Plenty of green to work with here, very little change from the original.

16th - I'm looking forward to the choices made here. It is unfortunately much, much, much easier than it used to be because the trees on the right used to be THICK and now are hardly any penelty at all. I once went out after a big wind storm and found 75 balls that had been shaken out of the trees. Despite the temptation, it is rarely worth driving at this green. Stay back and left at about 110 and the trees won't be an issue. You could see an eagle here. Unless the wind is WAY up, this is a huge birdie chance.

17th - a beautiful par 3 that isn't that difficult if the wind isn't blowing hard. Plenty of green and a LOT less overhanging branches than in years past.

18th - a big change from before - the tee shot is made VERY much more difficult than it used to be because of the bunker placement. The green is very well guarded and much farther back (I have spent more time putting on what is now the 18th green than anywhere else on the planet). This should make for a very exciting finishing hole. It always plays more downwind than you think on the approach!

Depending on the wind and the speed of the greens, I'd guess the winning total could be around 15 under. If there is no wind and the greens are soft, they could go LOW here, but with very fast greens the guys will go nuts trying to read the subtle breaks!
 

EdZ

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Wow - that was fun, fun fun!!!!!

I cannot begin to tell you how wonderful it was to see Tiger play Harding park! Daly's putt looked much simpler than it really was. The greens are quite deceptive.

Amzing to see where Daly and Tiger drove on 18, even with some wind those were BIG drives. Daly drove the ball exceptionally all week long.


What a treat that was, playing such big events at public courses. I hope we see many more events like this.
 
quote:Originally posted by EdZ

Wow - that was fun, fun fun!!!!!

I cannot begin to tell you how wonderful it was to see Tiger play Harding park! Daly's putt looked much simpler than it really was. The greens are quite deceptive.

Amzing to see where Daly and Tiger drove on 18, even with some wind those were BIG drives. Daly drove the ball exceptionally all week long.


What a treat that was, playing such big events at public courses. I hope we see many more events like this.

The broadcast didn't capture how much break the Harding Park greens have.

Having grown up in the Bay Area, I know what you mean about Tiger and John's drive on #18. You have to have played Harding or walked the course at a tournament to appreciate how big those drives were.
 
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